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Colyngbourne
28th Jun 2007, 11:05
(I don't usually review a book for 11/12 yr olds on Palimpsest - unless we're counting Harry Potter, which is, like it or not, the exception, but this review is a follow-on from the Self-Published Books thread; normal service will hereafter be resumed.)
Imagine a place where the TV series Monarch of the Glen crosses with George of the Jungle and borrows a few DNA strands from Artemis Fowl, and you have something approximating Justin Thyme. Usually referencing a book like this suggests some unworthy illegitimacy â a bastard child with sticky-out ears â but honestly (and this is rare in my experience) this hybrid chimera is not a bad looking beast at all.
The book is designed as an elaborate puzzle and exploration of the laws of time-travel (relativity, quantum mechanics and Schrödinger's cat will make an appearance in future books). It is set in the seat of a Scottish laird and his family and staff. This is a house and a family with many peculiarities and secrets but they possess the security of this being a slightly unrealistic tale and prove relatively undamaged by the hair-raising events that occur. Justin, as the 13 yr old billionaire inventor, has a rather wonderful relationship and friendship with his father, which is unusual to see in children's lit these days; his mother, Henny, is less motherly â leaving the care of her infant son Albion to the nanny and to the gorilla Eliza who communicates via a computer speech synthesiser â but Henny is no less affectionate and loving for that.
Sometimes the plot is a bit obvious, (and the characters all a bit too quirky). Sometimes the writing falls down â there were many descriptions of the Professorâs ears turning a variety of colours, which didnât feel like an amusing recurring theme, and similarly, Justinâs insides got a thorough simile-overhaul: his brain felt like aâ¦his insides felt like they were⦠- often with clumsy, over-technical phrases (but never quite so poor as âfingers being dragged lightly across the metal casing of a computer hard driveâ). There is much amusement at the many mispronunciations by Mrs Kof, the mannish murderous Czech weight-lifter who is now the Castleâs cook-in-residence, most of which is genuinely funny, but sometimes feels slightly awry. As mentioned above, there was a reference to Justinâs mother escaping from cannibals in Lesotho which felt grossly inappropriate in a book that is grounded in the generalities of the everyday: recycling boxes, mobile phones, e-mails.
Iâm no puzzler â and couldnât work out much of the clues scattered through the book: no-one is who they say they are and a criminal and unwilling accomplice are both at large and one of them undetected by the end of the story. I suspect my son will be better at working out the answer than I was.
A jolly good read with some laugh-out loud bits (and a cool ambigram on the front of the book).
***00¾
Stewart
1st Jul 2007, 18:24
Is there some sort of campaign to get this book noticed at the moment? Perhaps initiated by collectors of limited edition book runs looking to pocket some extra cash? Two of the other forums I visit have both had people join recently mentioning this book and giving the whole spiel about how it's the first of four, how the author is unknown, and so on and so forth. Then, there's the Amazon reviews giving it a nigh on unbelievable average of five stars over sixteen reviews. I find it all highly suspicious.
Colyngbourne
1st Jul 2007, 19:28
There might be (and the Amazon reviews are OTT) but it's unconnected with my reviewing it. I mentioned it in a children's book group last week and several of the children there had heard of it, and a teacher, so it's not a total unknown.
John Self
1st Jul 2007, 20:27
I wouldn't be surprised, Stewart, but as Col says above it does seem to be coincidentally a (quite) good book. Of course even if it's the greatest work of literature in the history of mankind, that wouldn't make a dishonest word-of-mouth campaign - if that's what it is - or an honest campaign based on (sigh) 'collectability,' any less contemptible.
Colyngbourne
1st Jul 2007, 23:54
My eleven yr old finished reading it tonight and thought it a pretty good read. He spent a long time the other day on the website.
Edit: I just asked him what stars he would give and he said ****0 1/2 - he very much enjoys rattling good detective-type mysteries and he appreciated the sciencey bits as well (which are slotted in the book as pages from Justin's Journal as he tries to explain time-travel). I think his rating is probably on 'top readability' rather than literary quality, as that is usually the criterion he judges on.
Stewart
2nd Jul 2007, 17:25
Hey, perhaps Panama is actually Christopher Priest, as per the nasty email the admin of this forum () received.
Pillock. We have to start to wonder if the "reviews" on the Book Group Online site are genuine and whether the guy who bought a £1000 1st ed off eBay is not, in fact, another pseudonym of the author paying eBay's commission as cheap publicity.
John Self
2nd Jul 2007, 18:15
Well, as he was so worried about being mistaken for J.K. Rowling, I helpfully provided his real name, which the mods there have now deleted. Whose side are they on!
Adshead, wasn't it? Quite an accomplished illustrator, and, by all accounts, an entertaining writer. He shouldn't have to resort to guerrilla marketing methods, unlike He Who Is Too Often Named.
John Self
3rd Jul 2007, 10:26
Well exactly. And surely if part of the 'fun' of the book is in working out who really wrote it (and how self-aggrandizing is that for an author, exactly?), then he should be positively encouraging speculation, including speculation that it's the work of an established author. Adshead's policy of "I'm going to use my anonymity as a point of interest for the book, but if anyone suggests that it was written by someone else then I'm going to kick and scream" is aPauling.
Lizzy Siddal
3rd Jul 2007, 21:45
I've just seen the little spat on bookgrouponline and never one to resist a controvery, I've just ordered the book! It sounds rather entertaining.
John Self
6th Jul 2007, 11:54
I see Paul Adshead/Panama Oxridge/Justin Thyme's fans have been visiting the comments (http://www.costabookawards.com/awards/index.aspx)section of the Costa Book Awards...
Stewart
6th Jul 2007, 12:08
Surely self-published books aren't eligible?
John Self
6th Jul 2007, 12:28
That's what I said in my comment (which hasn't appeared so far).
Lizzy Siddal
6th Jul 2007, 14:49
I received my copy yesterday. It's sure is a lovely looking book.
http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/61QD5T8T9KL._AA240_.jpg
The Book Keeper
7th Jul 2007, 14:03
I have watched this thread develop for a couple of weeks and have read all of the posts upon it, including the very amusing but 'quite rightly deleted' post by Stewart which "exposed" that .... STOP PRESS, ... I "The Book Keeper" had now registered for this forum, ... and was critical of me for so doing! ... (Laughably implying that the very fact that I had decided to register on here and at a few other online book forums last week, clearly indicated that some 'massive conspiracy' was waiting to be uncovered and 'heralding my arrival' as if I was at the very least the "anti-christ!" :shock: ) I thought it now appropriate to make a post (my first on here) in order to clarify a few "misconceptions" about both me, this book and it's author!
Is there some sort of campaign to get this book noticed at the moment?
Not as far as I'm aware and certainly not one that involves me. :!:
Two of the other forums I visit have both had people join recently mentioning this book. I find it all highly suspicious.
Why? ... Justin Thyme is a great new book! I'm sure that many people that have actually taken the time to read it before passing comment, (such as myself) may have been sufficiently impressed by it to feel the need to "share" their enthusiasm for it with others! .... Isn't this one of the reasons for the existance of book forums such as this one? :roll:
Of course even if it's the greatest work of literature in the history of mankind, that wouldn't make a dishonest word-of-mouth campaign - if that's what it is - or an honest campaign based on (sigh) 'collectability,' any less contemptible.
And what are your views on vindictive bad-mouth campaigns and (sigh) 'uninformed' comment on books by people that clearly haven't read them? :lol:
Hey, perhaps Panama is actually Christopher Priest, as per the nasty email the admin of this forum () received..
There you go Stewart, ... naming names again! ... why do you feel the need to do this all of the time? :cry: ... You refered to the author of Justin Thyme as "a complete a******e" in your post on this children & Young Adults Forum and received a fully justifyable reprimand for so doing! ... I also noticed that you used this post to once again mention me and without any reason other than your own (WRONG) assumptions about my motives, felt completely justifed in publicly 'slandering me' once again! :turd:
..... I also thought your "How does knowing the author's name spoil the book? http://www.bookgrouponline.com/forum/images/smilies/confused.gif" post on the Book Group Online site particularly revealing of your spectacular lack of knowledge about this book! (I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here and assuming that you weren't just playing dumb to be awkward.) ... So how come you feel qualified to pass comment and/or judgement upon it? :?:
Pillock. We have to start to wonder if the "reviews" on the Book Group Online site are genuine and whether the guy who bought a £1000 1st ed off eBay is not, in fact, another pseudonym of the author paying eBay's commission as cheap publicity.
You can stop 'wondering' gil! ... My review on the Book Group Online site is 100% genuine AND 100% independant.:!: Seeing as how I also happen to be 'the guy who bought a £1000 1st ed off eBay' ... I'm happy to confirm that you are in fact completely wrong on both counts!
Well, as he was so worried about being mistaken for J.K. Rowling, I helpfully provided his real name, which the mods there have now deleted. Whose side are they on!
The mods represent the best interests of the readers of their forum as I'm sure you are only too well aware, and do not take 'sides'! Your post on The Book Group Online was both very childish and extremely vindictive given that you know, (or would do if you had bothered to read this book before passing comment upon it) that just one of the many attractions of Justin Thyme is that it's intended readership, (children!) must try to identify the name of the author from clues hidden within it's text and illustrations!
Adshead, wasn't it?
Ditto! :roll:
He shouldn't have to resort to guerrilla marketing methods
But he isn't as far as I can ascertain! ... Where is the evidence for this claim? ... It would appear that you are once again completely wrong about this point and make the above 'statement of fact' as if it is based upon solid evidence, when the simple truth is that it is based on nothing other than the 'misconceptions' being expressed within this thread.
And surely if part of the 'fun' of the book is in working out who really wrote it (and how self-aggrandizing is that for an author, exactly?), then he should be positively encouraging speculation, including speculation that it's the work of an established author.
As this post reveals, you are clearly aware that "part of the 'fun' of the book" is indeed in attempting to work out who really wrote it! ... This is what makes your "What's this guy's problem? He isn't JK Rowling (he's **** *******)" post on the Book Group Online particularly nasty! As for you assertion that this concept is somehow "self-aggrandizing" I just don't see it? ... The author's name does NOT appear in the book or upon Justin Thyme's book jacket, there are also no photo's of the author in the book or upon the website! As such I'd say that this is just about the least "self-aggrandising" book that has even been published!
What seems to have been missed by everybody that feels they are qualified to 'pass judgement' on the wisdom of Justin Thyme's author having taken the decision to email the moderators of Book Group Online, is the relevence of the fact that Panama Oxridge requested that his/her statement be quoted in full! This fact, when taken in conjunction with the content of the final paragraph of that email:
"I make it a strict rule NEVER to get personally involved in ANY online forums discussing my work."
clearly indicates to me that the primary reason that Panama Oxridge felt compelled to take this step was not simply to prevent further 'conjecture' about the possibility that he/she is J.K. Rowling, (though this WAS indeed a very responsible thing to do if this mistaken belief could have led to some people buying the book for this reason alone) but had more to do with clearly indicating that he/she is NOT responsible for the appearance of ANY of the complimentary posts about Justin Thyme that are appearing online and in Forums such as this one!
May I point out that it is quite possibly the totally unfounded and quite frankly ridiculous notions about 'dishonest campaigns' and 'cheap publicity' being coordinated by the author that have been being expressed on this thread, that may have been at least partially 'instrumental' in Panama Oxridge feeling the need to take the step of issuing that statement! :!:
To conclude, may I respectfully suggest to Stewart, John Self & gil that should you wish for ANY of your views and opinions to actually be taken seriously by me or any other members of this forum, you would be well advised in future to ensure that you all take the time and trouble to actually first READ THE BOOK that you wish to pass comment upon! :evil:
........ Let the 'flack' begin! :lol:
The Book Keeper.
3 comments:
(a) protesting too much
(b) far too many emoticons and
(c) zzzzzzzzzzzzz
Stewart
7th Jul 2007, 14:59
I have watched this thread develop for a couple of weeks and have read all of the posts upon it, including the very amusing but 'quite rightly deleted' post by Stewart which "exposed" that .... STOP PRESS, ... I "The Book Keeper" had now registered for this forum, ... and was critical of me for so doing!
I should mention to you that I deleted that post myself as, in hindsight, I felt it made no contribution to this forum. But I reserve my right to be highly suspicious of you, as I am of all people who talk about self-published fiction, purely for the reason that they only ever talk about one book. Why join a book forum to discuss one book? Fair enough to bring one to others' attention. But what about all the other books you've read. Surely you'd want to talk about them too? No? Oh!
There you go Stewart, ... naming names again! ... why do you feel the need to do this all of the time? :cry: ... Sadly you are not placed to realise that the mention of Christopher Priest was an in-joke between some of the members of this forum, due to a post that author made on John Self's blog after a review of John Wyndham's Chocky.
You refered to the author of Justin Thyme as "a complete a******e" in your post on this children & Young Adults Forum Yes, I did. There's nothing wrong with having an opinion. And in this case, that Adshead would write and complain that people were speculating he was JK Rowling and wanted it clarified that he was not was the action of an arsehole. You either write with a pseudonym and lap up the speculation or you put your own name on it and be done with it. Methinks that he may just be a little bitter over Rowling's success. ;-)
I also thought your "How does knowing the author's name spoil the book? post on the Book Group Online site particularly revealing of your spectacular lack of knowledge about this book!...So how come you feel qualified to pass comment and/or judgement upon it?Does asking a pertinent question about a book now qualify as passing comment upon it? If so, we're all doomed.
the primary reason that Panama Oxridge felt compelled to take this step was not simply to prevent further 'conjecture' about the possibility that he/she is J.K. Rowling, (though this WAS indeed a very responsible thing to do if this mistaken belief could have led to some people buying the book for this reason alone) Er, now let's get back to reality here. There's nothing wrong with conjecture as to who wrote the book as that's what he's obviously after. So what if someone suggests it were written by JK Rowling. There's no evidence to back it up. And it's only, as you say, conjecture. There's no harm and if anyone buys the book for that reason alone then they are a numpty. Heaven forbid they buy a book because they want to read it.
Anyway, that's all from me. Based on your post you've obviously, to paraphrase Amis, gone gay for Adshead. I'll leave you to your love-in.
John Self
7th Jul 2007, 15:18
Book Keeper, I have no doubt all the pretty colours in your ridiculous self-serving (ie whether you are Paul Adshead the author and self-publisher or just 'Keith Broad' who paid £1,000 for a copy and wants to boost his ill-judged investment) post would look lovely on a Sony Bravia. Unfortunately they are still tiresome to read.
may I respectfully suggest to Stewart, John Self & gil that should you wish for ANY of your views and opinions to actually be taken seriously by me or any other members of this forum
How fucking dare you presume to associate yourself with "other members of this forum"? Just to make clear that you don't belong here, you're banned.
And learn how to use apostrophes.
Hekaterine
7th Jul 2007, 15:21
Banned after one post! That's got to be some sort of record on here.
John Self
7th Jul 2007, 15:26
Don't worry Hek, he only joined to talk about this book, so it's no loss.
I wonder how The Book Keeper, not being the author of the book, knew what the author had said in his private email to the moderators of Book Group Online in the parts they didn't publish on their site? Ah well, now we can only speculate.
Hekaterine
7th Jul 2007, 15:30
Best buds? Boyfriend and girlfriend? Clark Kent and Superman? Who knows.
I always think it's a bit of a pity when things kick off like this. But then I'm an old hippy who wants everyone to love each other...
Stewart
7th Jul 2007, 15:33
I wonder how The Book Keeper, not being the author of the book, knew what the author had said in his private email to the moderators of Book Group Online in the parts they didn't publish on their site? Ah well, now we can only speculate.
Did I miss that? Damn! What bit?
Colyngbourne
7th Jul 2007, 15:39
Seeing as I kicked off this thread with a review that treated the book like any other and found it broadly enjoyable, I find it most disappointing that the Book Keeper didn't just do a review as his contribution to this thread, as I imagine Lizzy will when she's read the book, and John too once I get around to posting him my copy.
The book came to me with very little to no hype, and doesn't need it. A book should stand or fall on its own merits: it is entertaining and interesting but not dazzling.
Colyngbourne
7th Jul 2007, 15:46
I wonder how The Book Keeper, not being the author of the book, knew what the author had said in his private email to the moderators of Book Group Online in the parts they didn't publish on their site? Ah well, now we can only speculate.
I think The Book Keeper was referring to the e-mail which the mods at BGO had actually quoted in full in one of the posts on that thread: the author had said in that e-mail about wanting it quoted in full, and about making a point about never joining in forums or whatever it was.
John Self
7th Jul 2007, 16:30
Oh OK, I see. But I don't follow his logic at all when he says that the content of the message sent to BGO...
clearly indicates to me that the primary reason that Panama Oxridge felt compelled to take this step was not simply to prevent further 'conjecture' about the possibility that he/she is J.K. Rowling ... but had more to do with clearly indicating that he/she is NOT responsible for the appearance of ANY of the complimentary posts about Justin Thyme that are appearing online and in Forums such as this one!
It indicates no such thing. The only thing it indicates was that Paul Adshead was getting itchy about anyone else getting the credit for his book.
Kimberley
7th Jul 2007, 19:09
may I respectfully suggest to Stewart, John Self & gil that should you wish for ANY of your views and opinions to actually be taken seriously by me or any other members of this forum, you would be well advised in future...
It would probably be a better idea if you didn't, The Book Keeper, since I'm fairly sure that the other members of this forum, like me, already take John Self, Stewart and gil's opinions very seriously (even when we don't agree with them ;-) ) based upon their extensive reviews and intelligent perspectives on a whole variety of books.
Meanwhile, as the parent of a 12 year old I have to say that The Book Keeper is doing this book a very large disservice. I was almost tempted to seek the book out when I first read Col's thoughtful and balanced review. I won't bother now.
Oh, and by the way, I'm not J.K. Rowling either. Is there anyone else here who isn't J.K. Rowling?
Hekaterine
7th Jul 2007, 19:10
I'm not JK Rowling and neither's my wife ;-)
steven matthews
8th Jul 2007, 2:49
Hello (This is meant as a reply to most of the Justin Thyme posts)
I am writing to inform you that you have just ruined nearly Two months work, as my 12 year old daughter and her friends have been spending their time on the justin thyme website and book trying to solve the clues and hopefully win the competition. Before you say you saved them time you must also prove your deduction process to win. My daughter asked me to join to say
"it's not fair" as she was looking for a website to confer with other fans and found your rantings including the authors real name.
Out of intrest i checked out the author and he has sold over a million copies of puzzle illustration books, did anyone think he just wanted to establish himself as a mainstream author not just a puzzle illustrator.
Please next time think before you type, you all seem to be a close knit group why not keep things between yourselves.
Regards
Steve
John Self
8th Jul 2007, 12:11
Steven, look over the thread again and you'll find the rantings began with The Book Keeper.
But I take your point and so I have marked the thread title with a spoiler warning and hidden the author's real name inside spoiler tags.
steven matthews
8th Jul 2007, 13:42
Hi
Thank you and also my apologies about the ranting comment. He did go on a bit!
Thank you for listening and my daughter seems placated. SHE can rant longer than anyone!
Kind regards
Steve
steven matthews
8th Jul 2007, 14:01
Hi
Sorry to bother you again, to be honest i'd rather be reading but i jujst told my daughter what you had done with the spoilers and she was very happy.....Until she typed in justin thyme and on your search engine thingy (im not technical) the bit that appears on the search as your link. It is clearly written in the first line with the authors name. Please help as i am getting such an ear bashing after i told her how good you had been about it.
Many thanks.
This is my first time in a forum so...as seems the norm i am currently reading a fete worse than death by Dolores Gordon-Smith
Kindest regards
Steve
John Self
8th Jul 2007, 17:18
Steve, that comes from Google's cache, ie the store of pages which Google keeps as it scans our (or any) site. In other words because Google scanned this thread yesterday or the day before it still shows the results from then. It will update within the next couple of days and the name should not appear any more after that.
Hekaterine
8th Jul 2007, 20:27
John Self, what a lovely man you are.
Steven, I hope your daughter enjoys the book regardless and at least she can have the somewhat smug pleasure of being In The Know - a wonderful thing to be at that age.
Also, of course, she should bear in mind that the clues in the book may lead to another pseudonym or a name that has not been mentioned on here so she shouldn't give up the ghost just yet.
Oh, John, it's a shame you banned him so soon. We could have had such fun with him!
John Self
9th Jul 2007, 13:28
Well I believe his last act was to send forum feedback to Wavid, so no doubt that will be shared with us in due course and will be suitably amusing.
amner
9th Jul 2007, 18:07
I feel I should know this Adshead person, but I don't. If I'd worked it out my reaction is most likely to have been, "oh, er, right."
Can't say this current intrigue has made me want to find out, either.
martini
9th Jul 2007, 19:56
...
Colyngbourne
9th Jul 2007, 20:16
Martini, some of your questions are regarding threads and issues which are not located here at Palimpsest. There seems to be an issue as to whether the author wants anonymity or partial anonymity. I don't suppose anyone could seriously imagine the book would have been written by Rowling.
Have you read the book? Another review of the actual text would be good!
amner
9th Jul 2007, 20:30
Hi everyone
First time post!
Welcome, martini, glad you dropped by.
Can I ask what on earth is going on here? I cannot think of a better way to turn children off reading or even venturing into the writing profession through fright of group bullying. Are some of the bloggers letting themselves down and doing much harm to the reading profession they love?
I think it's fairly clear what's going on. After Col's initial, reviewing, post you'll see that Stewart raises a suspicion about the method of promotion for the book. The thread develops from there. It is, however, intriniscally linked to the other forum we mention, and posts should be read in conjunction.
In my opinion (Possibly not valid to some) many of the postings are extremely personal, offensive and appear to mock the artist for what I can only imagine took many years of hard work.
Well, I'd have to take issue with that; I think they're fair comment. Again, as the thread develops you get a sense of why people are infuriated by such things.
Is it true that the author wrote a message to one of the bloggers? Are you sure it came from the author? Seems rather unlikely to me, after all, this is an experienced illustrator we are talking about.
If he did then why? My thoughts are that after selling a copy for £1000 (Yes the buyer does appear to gloat but maybe £1000 to him is loose change in his pocket? The Chelsea Abramovich of the book world?) perhaps he was concerned that the public would start paying extortionate prices for 'collectable' copies and wanted to quickly steer away from this possible scenario? OR maybe he thought that if everyone was chattering about Justin Thyme being written by J K Rowling than once they did eventually discover who wrote it they would all be disappointed? After all, he does not exactly have a household name does he. (perhaps this is why some feel they can be so rude?)
Whatever he's reasons (if it indeed was him) why can't someone simply ask why he wrote to one of the bloggers? I can only imagine this must be awful for him.
This is for the other forum to address, really, but one thing you should know is that we have had authors visit us who have, with great deception, tried to increase the value of their products through manipulating eBay (and other online purchase sites) records. We have every right to be suspicious. And, of course, to discuss it.
Hoping I don't get banned for speaking my mind (The same as many of you have done) simply because I see it differently.
No; you've done it with more restraint than The Book Keeper.
Does anyone else think along these lines?
Sit back and wait and see!
Welcome, martini
Can I ask how you came across this site?
John Self
9th Jul 2007, 20:46
Welcome to Palimpsest, martini. We look forward to your posts on other books that interest you.
The only person here who has commented on the book is Colyngbourne, as she's the only one who's read it. I will join that august league soon, as will Lizzy Siddal.
I have no quarrel with the author of Justin Thyme, although if he did send the email in question to the admin of bookgrouponline (and the admin seems satisfied based on the email address), then I agree with gil that he's a pillock.
The difficulty is that what we are seeing with Justin Thyme - though it's apparently not a bad book - is exactly what we at Palimpsest have seen time and again with other self-published books: a 'buzz' suddenly created over its 'collectability,' messages coincidentally appearing around the same time in different forums for what is after all not a bestselling or award-winning book, and Amazon reviews full of the suspicious content which we normally associate with self-promoting authors (going on about awaiting the sequel, plugging the website, mentioning its collectability, reviews by people who have never reviewed a book on Amazon before [12 out of 16 reviews], reviews submitted on publication day, ridiculously orgiastic five-star reviews which cannot find any fault at all with the book [16 out of 16], and so on and so forth).
Nobody here is saying that the author is doing this himself, or getting people to do it on his behalf, but it's certainly an unfortunate coincidence that the features mostly match.
martini
9th Jul 2007, 21:10
...
Kimberley
9th Jul 2007, 21:27
Welcome, martini. I'll also be looking forward to your posts on other books you enjoy.
I do want to make a comment about this, however. You said you
do care about the offensive language used, considering this is a children's book why can't some of the 'more experienced' posters be more responsible with what they are writing. Children do google Justin Thyme for the clues (I have a group of four in my class, I am a classroom assistant) and some have mentioned a few of the comments being made and appear to be rather upset.
You're right in that children do google, but I have children of the age of this book's readership and I would actually be upset if their classroom teachers and assistants didn't take care to steer them away from a site obviously intended for adults. No one can control what is on the web, but doesn't your school have some sort of program that blocks webpages with inappropriate content? If not, I'd suggest that you ask them to acquire something as soon as possible. There are many packages available. Meanwhile, when children are on the internet, it does no harm to act as a gatekeeper yourself. There is far worse content around than the comments you've mentioned here.
martini
9th Jul 2007, 21:44
...
Kimberley
9th Jul 2007, 21:50
Unfortunately I do not have any control over children out of school hours.:roll:
Of course you don't, martini. That is the responsibility of their parents.
amner
9th Jul 2007, 22:28
My issues
I quote 'Pillock, gone gay, How fucking dare you' Do I need go on?
No, but you might need to learn how to contextualise.
As Stewart pointed out, 'gone gay' was an Amis reference (and we are, lest it need pointing out, a site with a hefty literary vibe); John Self's indignation at The Book Keeper was in keeping with the absurd claim made that he spoke for other members, and at that point it became a policy issue.
We are an inclusive site, martini, but it's a place of adult content and context, as you may have discovered had you not just concentrated on one thread out of 2,500+...and anyway, we veered away from the book per se after post #1.
Plus, if 'pillock' is now deemed offensive I think we're all in serious trouble.
martini
9th Jul 2007, 22:44
...
martini
9th Jul 2007, 22:56
...
John Self
9th Jul 2007, 23:05
Martini, you seem to be confusing the author of Justin Thyme (whom we have speculated about) and The Book Keeper (whom we have openly abused and banned after he openly abused us). They are not, so far as we are aware, the same person. In fact you seem to be confused generally. Please show us that you are a serious member of this forum and not a troll by taking time to join in with other book discussions here.
martini
9th Jul 2007, 23:15
...
Colyngbourne
9th Jul 2007, 23:51
I think I am getting a bit confused. Perhaps this is due to the speculation as to whether or not the two people in question are the same.
the author of Justin Thyme (whom we have speculated about) and The Book Keeper (whom we have openly abused and banned after he openly abused us). They are not, so far as we are aware, the same person.
It was with The Book Keeper's posts that there was an issue.
I take your point about children googling for information, but that is principally a matter for parental control. And although there is the occasional review here of books for Young Adults (mostly reviewed by myself, for any other adult here who appreciates and is interested in YA lit), this is first and foremost a forum for adult reviews of adult books. Following a request to keep the author's name hidden, spoiler tags have been put in place.
I hope you have fun exploring the rest of Palimpsest!
MikeMk1
10th Jul 2007, 10:06
What larks! It's just like Masquerade all over again. Or one of those films where everyone whips off a mask at the end of the film and we find out who they really are.
The real author must hate all this publicity and speculation. How could he possibly have guessed that disguising his real identity would lead to literally the meltdown of the Internet?
Children do google Justin Thyme for the clues (I have a group of four in my class, I am a classroom assistant) and some have mentioned a few of the comments being made and appear to be rather upset, hence I could not resist in joining the debate.
This is intriguing - where are all these children hearing about the book in the first place? It's not in the shops.
John Self
10th Jul 2007, 15:08
Heheh, I hadn't noticed that last night Ang! Hilarious, isn't it? The idea that a majority of children in martini's classroom ('some' out of four) are independently reading this self-published book and each just happened to mention to their classroom assistant that they were upset by our comments (which they all found coincidentally)! Still, nice that there are some male classroom assistants out there, Mrs Self is always saying how the primary sector needs more men.
Oh and I forgot to mention a couple of other features that Justin Thyme has in common with some of the self-published and self-promoted trex we've waded through in Palimpsest over the years:
Amazon reviews apparently all by adults, even though it's a children's book (the only child's view I could find was on this (http://www.thereadinggrouponline.co.uk/snitz/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1053)forum, where someone gives the book to her daughter only to find that it's not her sort of thing)
Listmania lists which include the self-published book among lots of very well known books: such as this (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Books-School-Hols-Order-Preference/lm/R19FO2AXBSO4J6/ref=cm_lmt_srch_f_1_rsrsrs0/203-8190713-8815942)one and this (http://www.amazon.co.uk/MUST-HAVE-Book-series-for-9-13-year-olds/lm/R1WTCAX3YSCD7K/ref=cm_lm_byauthor_title_full/203-8190713-8815942)one (both by an Amazon customer who has reviewed only one book: guess what?).Just a coincidence, of course. Justin Thyme is, after all, quite a good book apparently and the author would be embarrassed by any attempts by people to plug it excessively.
Kimberley
10th Jul 2007, 15:23
Justin Thyme is, after all, quite a good book apparently and the author would be embarrassed by any attempts by people to plug it excessively.
That's something else that I don't understand. Whilst martini, The Book Keeper etc might be doing their best to promote the book, I imagine any serious writer would find it awfully embarrassing to see fake reviews and lists and see your work being trotted out in this unprofessional manner. Just thinking about it makes me cringe.
amner
10th Jul 2007, 15:41
I have not read the book, I shall put it on my 'to do list' and get back to you. (I have not submitted a review before so please go easy)
I imagine this should go into the Weird Happenings... (https://palimpsest.org.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=2185) thread, but I've just noticed there's a Justin Thyme review on Amazon, from a couple of months ago, that uses the same name you used for your email address to register with us!
Utterly bizarre!
I'm constantly astonished by the extraordinary coincidences that pepper our everyday lives. What were the odds?!
BeccaK
10th Jul 2007, 15:42
Heheh, I hadn't noticed that last night Ang! Hilarious, isn't it? The idea that a majority of children in martini's classroom ('some' out of four) are independently reading this self-published book and each just happened to mention to their classroom assistant that they were upset by our comments (which they all found coincidentally)!
To be fair, I've just re-read martini's posts, and I think that s/he may mean 'four out of some' rather than 'some out of four' children in her class are reading the book. And when I was at school we all tended to read the same books, so I don't find this unbelievable. Palimpsest is currently the 13th result when you search for Justin Thyme on Google.
I think that the community of users of Palimpsest tend to trust each other's opinions (I certainly have a very high regard for most people on here ;-)), learn each other's likes and dislikes and foibles, and we tend to use this forum as a way of finding new books to read. Therefore it is disturbing and annoying to find people on Palimpsest who are deceptively self-promoting rather than contributing evenly and openly. And we are not a single issue forum, either.
martini - I really like to believe the best possible of people until I can see otherwise, nor do I particularly want you to go away thinking badly of the good people here. I think you've possibly stumbled into this discussion at an unfortunate time. If that is the case, the best possible thing you could do for your own credibility (from my perspective, at least) would be to hang around, read around, post some reviews of books you have read (even another self-published phenomenon such as Eragon would do, i guess!), and discuss other people's reading with them.
I imagine any serious writer would find it awfully embarrassing to see fake reviews and lists and see your work being trotted out in this unprofessional manner.
The fake reviews and lists happen all the time, but the unprofessional manner seems to be the difference here!
EDIT: note - cross posted with Amner. Am beginning to think less well of people I've just met.
John Self
10th Jul 2007, 15:50
To be fair, I've just re-read martini's posts, and I think that s/he may mean 'four out of some' rather than 'some out of four' children in her class are reading the book.
And we do always wish to be fair, Becca! I think you're right and I misinterpreted what martini said. I apologise for that. This of course reduces the level of startling coincidence somewhat.
Sadly it is then raised again by what amner has just mentioned.
BeccaK
10th Jul 2007, 15:52
And we do always wish to be fair, Becca! I think you're right and I misinterpreted what martini said. I apologise for that. This of course reduces the level of startling coincidence somewhat.
Sadly it is then raised again by what amner has just mentioned.
My faith in strangers has been shattered.
Colyngbourne
10th Jul 2007, 16:33
Justin Thyme is, after all, quite a good book apparently
Yes, I'll reiterate this, because on its own terms, this book is a jolly good read for anyone aged 9-12. On that score, it can't be classed with other self-published books that I have run screaming from.
I can see that it's not available to buy in shops but anyone used to buying children's books over Amazon can have come across it there, and as BeccaK says, children who read do swap books all the time at school: we constantly have to keep track of what's not in our house.
The whole 'adults-reviewing' phenomenon is another matter. There are hardly any adults who read children's books, let alone bother to review them on Amazon, unless they are serious Children/YA devotees who do more in-depth reviews, and then, not on Amazon either but usually on their blogs or mailing lists.
martini
10th Jul 2007, 20:47
...
Stewart
10th Jul 2007, 21:30
You lot are so cynical!
Well, when you say you haven't read the book and then there's a review with your email address, why shouldn't we be? Answer the charge.
You do not have to, but I am asking.
Damn right we don't! I don't think you are best placed to sign up here and tell us how to use language. This site is not for kids. Accept it.
Where can I find any blogging on 'The Court of the Air'?
Try a blog. This is a forum. And nobody has read it here. You might want to ask those resourceful kids you work with how to use Google. They'll no doubt find you a blog about that book.
Stewart
10th Jul 2007, 21:58
One thing I'm wondering. Why are we still hiding the author's name? There are reviews going back almost a year on Amazon. Surely any competition to guess his (for it is a he, children) name is well and truly over?
Colyngbourne
10th Jul 2007, 22:41
No, I think it's fair to keep it under spoiler tags. The book doesn't seem to have hit the best seller lists so I imagine there are children only just finding out about it (also it's in hardback which is not always within the means).
Out of fairness to kids who are still puzzling it out, as far as I'm concerned, it can stay 'hidden' - that's reasonable.
martini
10th Jul 2007, 22:54
...
Colyngbourne
10th Jul 2007, 23:07
Speaking for myself, I find hype of any book totally off-putting, and more so when it is of a children's book and wholly coming from adults as a marketing thing. Word-of-mouth or word-of-blog from trusted YA forums/websites is where I principally hunt out recommendations of books, and any amount of "this book is fabulous, filled with extraordinary characters that knock X into a cocked hat" reviews by *adults* on Amazon will turn me off a book for good. As a fairly discerning parent of four children aged 8 and up, I find this kind of hype is no good at all.
Rave reviews from all quarters can and do easily appear falsified and OTT, even when they're not.
John Self
10th Jul 2007, 23:09
Welcome to Palimpsest, Martini.
We all know how difficult it is for new authors to get noticed, particularly self-published ones. However it's also well known that most self-published authors don't deserve to get noticed. Colyngbourne who is an old hand (not that old, actually) at children's and young adult literature speaks quite highly of it, as you have seen at the start of this thread, and that alone sets the book apart from literally every other self-published book we've seen here on Palimpsest.
What your partner has been doing is admirable if he really feels the book deserves to be a success. But. If all those Amazon reviews and Listmania lists are genuine, I'm a monkey's uncle. I am not saying that your partner had anything to do with them. But they do constitute hype. There are books which have been on the bestseller lists or won prizes which have fewer reviews than Justin Thyme. And I don't know of any other children's books which are reviewed solely by adults (except the crap self-published kind mentioned above, because the adults in question are usually the author).
And your coming on here and pretending to have no connection with the author, and defending the book, is also a part of the hype. Normal books just have to roll with the punches without being stridently defended every time a dissenting voice arises.
So there is hype and there is suspicion and cynicism, and not unreasonably, in my view. But if the book is good, and I hope to find that out soon, then I can only wish for it to do well. The collector parasites like The Book Keeper, however, who weigh in with attacks because they fear not for the integrity of the book but for their monetary investment, I have nothing but contempt for.
martini
10th Jul 2007, 23:51
...
martini
10th Jul 2007, 23:54
...
. Someone mentioned the same email being used was on Amazon so I have had to come clean otherwise I will simply do much more damage than good.
So, did you write that review?
martini
11th Jul 2007, 1:45
...
I've been watching this debate with interest and a certain amount of guilt as it was I who first mentioned the book on Palimpsest (I think).
Anyone who knows me knows I sell books , usually at a loss but very occasionally at a huge profit. (It's the difference between my drinking Kestrel or Stella Artois). I have championed a few self published books when I have believed in them, enjoyed them, or believed in the author's potential. I absolutely, utterly and unequivocally HATE any type of false review or self promotion.
Sensible booksellers have been pushing this book for 6 months or more now, selling at cover price or less up until a few weeks ago. They know it's good, they know there are only so many copies around, and they know the best strategy is to wait until the public get wind of it and that they can recover their investment quickly and move on to something else, wishing they'd bought a few more copies when the author was struggling to shift any at all.
I first mentioned this book on another thread about self publishing, all I said was that self publishing doesn't necessarily mean crap, although you have to look very, very hard to find a gem. I know Col has read and enjoyed it, JS is champing at the bit to read it, as is Lizzy Siddal. I hope their reviews reflect the book, rather than the hype that is currently surrounding it but hey!! my copies are all sold, I really don't have anything to gain now, hence this post.
I assume we are now going to report to Amazon and to all the book forums that the glowing reports of the book were posted by an associate of the author, and letting eBay know that questionable marketing techniques, involving deception, have been used in the promotion of the book. I think it is also worth while telling Mr Adshead that his little helper is doing more harm than good.
Colyngbourne
11th Jul 2007, 16:26
I understand one Amazon review was written by the person whose email Martini used, but not the others.
I would think the author is picking up on the idea that this kind of marketing is not that popular or useful.
One of the Amazon reviews is supposedly by someone from Illinois, but the book doesn't appear to be for sale in the US.
Lizzy Siddal
14th Jul 2007, 22:16
To Panama Oxridge
May I congratulate you on a highly-entertaining start your Justin Thyme series. Your simplified explanations of timeforks, causal loops and a googoloplex (well, almost) of other time-travel related phenomena have provided this 9-13 (come 50) year-old with a basic science-fiction (or is it science-fact?) education. I love the colours, weave and texture of Justinâs Tartan of Thyme. If only my 19-year old would sit still long enough, I would have even greater fun reading this aloud, developing new narrative and acting skills in the process! (How does one imitate a computer-literate gorilla?)
I have stolen a quick look at the related website but shall infringe on the pleasures of 8-13 year olds no further. Many are no doubt spending many a soggy summer afternoon solving the additional puzzle set for them.
Should said website generate more interest in your first novel and the subsequent titles then I am glad. I, sincerely, hope you find a publisher for your series. May I ask when the second title is due? There are many reasons why I can't wait; the most pressing being I haven't the faintest inkling as to the identity of X!
Sincerely
Lizzy Siddal
-----------------------------------------
Note to The Palimpworld
At this moment I am unable to write a critical review of this book for I am dismayed by the noise/nastiness in this thread. Unfortunate too that martini had a hidden agenda for she raised some pertinent points.
Sincerely
Lizzy Siddal
P.S I see Martini's posts have been deleted. Was that her choice?
Stewart
14th Jul 2007, 23:49
P.S I see Martini's posts have been deleted. Was that her choice?
Well, since they were deleted by her, I'd say it was her choice. It's a bloody joke that she should do so, as it's nothing more than removing, as best as possible, the admission that she was a bullshitter.
As the great man said (https://palimpsest.org.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=3049&highlight=sandman): Sharks patrol these waters...
TwentiesGirl
12th Feb 2012, 17:26
Just realised how long this thread has been here but thought I ought to add that Justin Thyme was re-published in 2010 by Inside Cover and the sequel was published by the same people at the end of 2011.. Also, does anyone know how long it will take for the spoiler about the author's real identity to stop coming up? My daughter was searching for clues to the puzzle on the website and accidentally found it...
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