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Old 10th Jan 2011, 19:27   #41
Mookse
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Default Re: Wikileaks

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Originally Posted by Oryx View Post
Ya think? After this weekend's drama with the shooting of Congresswoman Giffords, can we really ignore what is going on in the US? The media will have it that this is just another crazy; and of course he is. However, there are people in the US who don't know what else to do. Imagine being driven to murder to make your point!????
So this 22 year old just didn't have another way to get his point across? As if this was a legitimate method, in any case? It really looks like you're excusing him, which I can barely comprehend.
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Old 10th Jan 2011, 19:30   #42
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Default Re: Wikileaks

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...I guess it's OK as long as the USJD publishes all these details on an internationally accessible website - let's call it WikiWikileaksleaks.com.
Love it!
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Old 10th Jan 2011, 19:31   #43
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Default Re: Wikileaks

You know you're using facebook too much when you want to click "like" on forum posts. Like Mookse's, Fanshaw's and Beth's recent ones... Sorry Oryx, I just don't get what you mean.
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Old 11th Jan 2011, 1:13   #44
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Default Re: Wikileaks

First of all, let me apologize to this forum for bombarding it with my personal politics. It’s clearly the wrong place for it.

Secondly, as to my last post, I realize that there is a huge chunk of analysis missing, which would connect the Department of Justice’s subpoenaing Twitter for account information for those who follow Wikileaks with the actions of a deranged gunman. I suspect that there’s no interest in that analysis here anyway, and besides, the general argument is made far more eloquently by such writers as Chris Hedges and Noam Chomsky, and others.

Back to Wikileaks.

Last week, in a PM exchange with Chrisphillips, he made a very intelligent and convincing argument as to why Assange was to be reviled for his indiscriminate actions. He had me faltering in my support for Wikileaks, so I went back to the two sources mentioned above for their views on Wikileaks. They both led me to Daniel Ellsberg (the Pentagon Papers leaker) and this interview with Ann Goodman from Democracy Now, which has me more convinced that ever that Wikileaks is vital.

In this interview (in two parts on Youtube)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1pTl8KdREk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dJ0AUs09jM

he explains why. Particularly, part two addresses Cp’s concerns about harms coming to informants or others named in the documents.
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Old 11th Jan 2011, 2:06   #45
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Default Re: Wikileaks

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Secondly, as to my last post, I realize that there is a huge chunk of analysis missing, which would connect the Department of Justice’s subpoenaing Wikileaks for twitter account information with the actions of a deranged gunman. I suspect that there’s no interest in that analysis here anyway, and besides, the general argument is made far more eloquently by such writers as Chris Hedges and Noam Chomsky, and others.
Not so fast, Oryx. I don't want to read Chomsky and then extrapolate his general argument to figure yours out. I'd love to hear your analysis for how wikileaks is related to the actions of a deranged gunman, but not just any gunman, since somewhere in there you will have to explain why this gunman was justified, indeed, "driven" to homicide to "make [his] point."
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Old 11th Jan 2011, 2:22   #46
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Default Re: Wikileaks

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I don't want to read Chomsky and then extrapolate his general argument to figure yours out.
Then consider my post on the subject withdrawn. There is no shorthand way of outlining the erosion of civil liberties that has been occurring in the US over the last thirty years, which is starting to foment into midguided and sometimes fatal actions. I did not mean to imply that this action was justified, I probably should have said unsurprising.
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Old 11th Jan 2011, 11:13   #47
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Default Re: Wikileaks

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Originally Posted by Oryx View Post
Daniel Ellsberg (the Pentagon Papers leaker) and this interview with Ann Goodman from Democracy Now, which has me more convinced that ever that Wikileaks is vital.

In this interview (in two parts on Youtube)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1pTl8KdREk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dJ0AUs09jM

he explains why. Particularly, part two addresses Cp’s concerns about harms coming to informants or others named in the documents.
These videos are interesting, and Ellsberg certainly suggests that Wikileaks are paying attention to the potential dangers faced by individuals identified in the documents.
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Old 11th Jan 2011, 14:29   #48
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Default Re: Wikileaks

Not buying it. I see two needs in conflict, a government's need to wage war in Afghanistan and, as Mike Mullen states in the clip, Assange's need to make a point. The leaker thinking that the warrior can engage without messing things up is bad and misguided enough. But to stand on the street corner and fling information indiscriminately will neither shorten the war nor do anything but make its ending more difficult. Hurting more people in a wider net of hurt is like the ripple in a pond.
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Old 11th Jan 2011, 15:35   #49
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Default Re: Wikileaks

It isn't just Afghanistan. An unpublicised example of Assange's lack of discretion is that Morgan Tsvangirai is under investigation from Mugabe's goons for treason based on what he told an US diplomat. The death penalty has been threatened if he is found guilty. Any prospect for improvement in Zimbabwe will hang with him if it comes to that. As Beth alludes to, foot, puddle, ripples.

Truth hero? Free speech martyr? Bullshit. This man is an enemy of anyone who holds dear democracy, liberty and freedom from tyranny.
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Old 11th Jan 2011, 16:15   #50
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Default Re: Wikileaks

I have a question for Beth and Chrisphillips:

As Daniel Ellsberg observes in the above interview, he is surprised that there have been no major leaks since the Pentagon Parers until Wikileaks. Why do you think that is?
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