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Old 20th Oct 2010, 22:57   #1
Colyngbourne
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Default Comprehensive Spending Review

Sooo, that's it then. Half a million public sector jobs to go (let alone the private jobs that depend on public sector stuff happening); EMA axed; benefits capped; legal aid limited; ad infinitum... Tuition fees....aircraft carriers without any aircraft...

Anyone got any positive vibes coming out of any of that?
How long again till we get to use our democratic votes?
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Old 20th Oct 2010, 23:29   #2
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Default Re: Comprehensive Spending Review

Quote:
Anyone got any positive vibes coming out of any of that?
Well... kind of. I have to put the case for the prosecution, as follows:

Anyone who has paid for their own education, has had continuous employment, created work for others, contributed to their pension, paid their tax, paid in full for their children's upbringing until they could maintain themselves and never had to ask for handouts, is going to escape the cuts. Isn't that fair?

People who are living off the back of tax payers will be encouraged to get a job and pay a little tax themselves.

There will be casualties, sure, but it's not the kind of privation you get in wartime or in the third world, or even in America.

People who are genuinely in trouble will still be protected.

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How long again till we get to use our democratic votes?
Heaven forbid anyone still thinks that Labour, even under Ed, is a pretty cool idea.
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Old 21st Oct 2010, 8:13   #3
John Self
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Default Re: Comprehensive Spending Review

It's worth pointing out that in April, the Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development calculated that 500,000 public sector jobs would have to go in the next 5 years whoever won the election. Of course there's a case to be made that the coalition have directed the cuts in certain ideological ways, but I don't think Labour can realistically pretend that the job market would have been significantly healthier under them. Really this election was one which all parties would probably have been reasonably content to lose, as that way they could jeer from the sidelines when the bad news had to be delivered. Mervyn King before the election said that whoever won, they would have to make such unpopular decisions that they would subsequently put themselves out of government for a generation. We shall see.
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Old 21st Oct 2010, 9:20   #4
Colyngbourne
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Default Re: Comprehensive Spending Review

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Anyone who has paid for their own education, has had continuous employment, created work for others, contributed to their pension, paid their tax, paid in full for their children's upbringing until they could maintain themselves and never had to ask for handouts, is going to escape the cuts. Isn't that fair?
In a country with state education for all, funded by taxation, this could apply to any public sector worker, who is now about to lose their job. They're not going to escape the cuts.

If people get "hand-outs" it is because their wages are so miserable or their employment chances so reduced, that it allows them to have some kind of standard of living that is an inch higher than poverty. Hardly much to ask of a civilsed country. Much is made of fraud being a reason for the benefit cuts and caps, but only 1%, I believe, of benefit claimants commit any kind of fraud, and usually on the scale of claiming cash-in-hand. Yet the other 99% are going to have their living costs and welfare downgraded.
The poorest 10% will be proportionally worse off. Women, the disabled, the poor youth - all disproportionately affected by the cuts.
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Old 21st Oct 2010, 16:35   #5
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Default Re: Comprehensive Spending Review

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In a country with state education for all, funded by taxation, this could apply to any public sector worker, who is now about to lose their job. They're not going to escape the cuts.
Good point. I had missed that.

However, it's well-known that absenteeism and idleness are 1.5 to 2 times as prevalent in the public sector than in private industry. It is to be hoped that the victims of the cuts will be the ones who are not pulling their weight. (Google absenteeism in public sector workers in uk for plenty examples of slackness.)

Most workers in my industry (freelance IT) have been through hard times - pay freezes and cuts, redundancies, overtime bans etc.- on several occasions in the last thirteen years. How about public sector workers?
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Old 21st Oct 2010, 16:47   #6
ono no komachi
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Default Re: Comprehensive Spending Review

The industry people won't be immune, either. Lots of people work for organisations who supply to the public sector. Public sector cuts don't just affect public sector jobs.
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Old 22nd Oct 2010, 10:24   #7
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Default Re: Comprehensive Spending Review

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Originally Posted by gil View Post
Anyone who has paid for their own education, has had continuous employment, created work for others, contributed to their pension, paid their tax, paid in full for their children's upbringing until they could maintain themselves and never had to ask for handouts, is going to escape the cuts. Isn't that fair?

People who are living off the back of tax payers will be encouraged to get a job and pay a little tax themselves.
gil, you write as if the two above situations cover everyone (I do note that you backtracked a little bit with Col's point about public sector workers, but only to then label them all lazy).

It's fine for you, who is done with his own major lifetime spending, but what about people in the middle? All these public sector workers looking for private sector jobs is going to make matters worse for people already looking for work. Sure, the businesses are saying they will hire people, but will they really? I haven't seen anything yet from the conservatives (I don't see that the Lib Dems have much pull in this coalition) to help businesses expand or increase their ability to hire more people. Businesses have hiring freezes just like the public sector, so what are we going to do?

My husband has applied for two jobs recently which he is massively overqualified for and has not even been chosen for an interview.

It's tough out there right now, gil. I'm glad your sitting well, but please don't tar everyone in the middle. I've never taken a government handout either and hope I will not need to.
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Old 22nd Oct 2010, 10:28   #8
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Default Re: Comprehensive Spending Review

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However, it's well-known that absenteeism and idleness are 1.5 to 2 times as prevalent in the public sector than in private industry. It is to be hoped that the victims of the cuts will be the ones who are not pulling their weight.
Nope, that's not how it works. The victims are those whose departmental funding is being cut. They can't just be shuffled into someone else's job, no matter how good they are.
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Old 22nd Oct 2010, 11:24   #9
Colyngbourne
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Default Re: Comprehensive Spending Review

I find the word "hand-out" also suggests that being on benefits is automatically demeaning.
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Old 22nd Oct 2010, 11:31   #10
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Default Re: Comprehensive Spending Review

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Originally Posted by gil View Post
It is to be hoped that the victims of the cuts will be the ones who are not pulling their weight.
A noble hope, but how would you propose to weed out the idlers and slackers? Perhaps a questionnaire .
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