Palimpsest  

Go Back   Palimpsest > User Forums > Politics & Society

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 21st Oct 2009, 12:44   #531
amner
Administrator
is beyond help
 
amner's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10 Apr 2003
Location: Cambridge
Posts: 10,918
Default Re: US Presidential Election 2008

Hey! Look! It was all worth it:

__________________
amner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st Oct 2009, 13:05   #532
Beth
Senior Palimpsester
suckles at the teat of the Palim-God
 
Beth's Avatar
 
Join Date: 22 Sep 2006
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,854
Default Re: US Presidential Election 2008

It's too early to laugh so hard!
Beth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st Oct 2010, 16:40   #533
Beth
Senior Palimpsester
suckles at the teat of the Palim-God
 
Beth's Avatar
 
Join Date: 22 Sep 2006
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,854
Default Re: US Presidential Election 2008

Well, two years ago Stewart, Hinton, JS, and Daveybot stayed up all night to see the election results come in. I'll never forget that warm evening and the sense of possibility it carried.

It can't be over, even when the dogs are down.

Last edited by Beth; 31st Oct 2010 at 17:18.
Beth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st Nov 2010, 10:37   #534
Ang
Senior Palimpsester
suckles at the teat of the Palim-God
 
Ang's Avatar
 
Join Date: 25 Oct 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 3,199
Default Re: US Presidential Election 2008

I'm with you, Beth. Here's hoping.
__________________
2014 2013 2012 2011 2010 2009 2008=post 80611
Ang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st Nov 2010, 10:43   #535
ono no komachi
Senior Palimpsester
has the freedom of Palimp City
 
ono no komachi's Avatar
 
Join Date: 14 Aug 2003
Location: Gloucestershire
Posts: 3,467
Default Re: US Presidential Election 2008

Beth, is the Tea Party faction quite as vociferous over there as our media are making them seem? They seem to be all over our broadcast and online media, do they get as much airtime on their home turf?
ono no komachi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st Nov 2010, 12:39   #536
Beth
Senior Palimpsester
suckles at the teat of the Palim-God
 
Beth's Avatar
 
Join Date: 22 Sep 2006
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,854
Default Re: US Presidential Election 2008

Yes, ono, they are all over the place, and they are vocal because at the moment they have a lot of support in local press and media. Just in my neighborhood I'm surrounded by their yard signs, and on my walk the other day I spotted a small "don't tread on me" flag (their handshake of sorts) fluttering in the flowerbed of another neighbor. I don't understand it. I've tried to talk to people and discern some rationale, but most of what comes back is just raw emotion and bits about "the Constitution, taking the gov't back, etc." I wish I could say I'm not scared.
Beth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd Nov 2010, 9:26   #537
ono no komachi
Senior Palimpsester
has the freedom of Palimp City
 
ono no komachi's Avatar
 
Join Date: 14 Aug 2003
Location: Gloucestershire
Posts: 3,467
Default Re: US Presidential Election 2008

There was a TV documentary about them on BBC2 last night. Notable moments: a doctor arguing against healthcare reform, comparing it to everyone being forced to buy a particular brand of refrigerator; a businessman saying that the government was claiming all his money as its own (not sure who bought the clothes he was wearing); many, many people saying that they had no freedoms whatsoever any more; and a very nice-seeming lady saying how proud she was to be at a Tea Party rally, whilst hovering in the background was a young woman wearing a T-shirt bearing the legend 'PREPARE TO DIE YOU COMMIE BASTARDS'.

One (again, very pleasant-seeming, amiable) woman explained that they wanted to go back to a time when things weren't so complicated. She held up the eighteenth century as the ideal time "...if you forget about slavery, disease, poor sanitation..."
ono no komachi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd Nov 2010, 18:40   #538
Paul
Palimpsestarian
is a Palimpsester Extraordinaire
 
Join Date: 30 Sep 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,002
Default Re: US Presidential Election 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by ono no komachi View Post
"...if you forget about slavery, disease, poor sanitation..."
ono, I'm guessing a significant percentage of people at a tea party rally wouldn't agree with the first item on your list.
__________________
2009 2010 2011
2012 20132014
2015
2016
Paul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd Nov 2010, 20:47   #539
John Self
Administrator
suffers from smallness of vision
 
John Self's Avatar
 
Join Date: 27 Jun 2003
Location: Belfast
Posts: 15,939
Default Re: US Presidential Election 2008

The comedian Rob Delaney tweeted the other week that the Tea Party would have died of obscurity a year or more ago "if the media didn't defibrillate it every day at dawn."

Anyone who likes laughing at selectively edited videos of right-wing Americans will find plenty to amuse them here.

But it's plainly silly to dismiss everyone who protests in their name as a hard-of-thinking crackpot. There are valid reasons for the 'haves' in US healthcare (ie those with existing cover) to worry that universal coverage (not that Obama got that, but you know what I mean) would reduce the quality of their coverage by spreading the payouts too thin. For example in the UK, where we have a national health service of which I am very fond, you don't have to wait very long to hear another story in the media about new cancer drugs being refused NHS prescription because they're too expensive. Does that happen with insurance companies in the US?

The one thing that seems to unite Tea Partiers is a desire for smaller government. This is culturally something that seems peculiar to many Europeans, but it's a strong tradition in the US - not just because it also means lower taxes - and it's not a surprise that many Americans object to Obama's liberal-lite legislative programme, which involves more government regulation in a way that I personally find politically attractive but many Americans clearly don't. Many seem to object to the stimulus plan and even Bush's TARP (though, tellingly, around half of Americans believe it was Obama who passed the TARP legislation) on the basis that a free-market ideology opposes intervention. Well, I certainly would have been very interested to see what would have happened if TARP hadn't been enacted, but only if the effects could have been isolated to the US - as it is, if any more of their major institutions had collapsed after Lehman Brothers, then the results on this side of the Atlantic wouldn't have been pretty.

To be fair to Obama, I distinctly remember him saying in his acceptance speech in 2008 that the economic recovery would not be work "of one year, or even one term." Frankly now it looks as though one term is all he's going to get. I fully understand that recovery from the worst recession since the 1930s will take more than four years, but what I don't understand is why Obama has been so lily-livered in getting his legislative programme through. He started out with a stronger majority in the Senate than Bush had, and has barely got even one of his major policies enacted. No wonder liberals are revolting ... and responding by allowing conservatives to retake the House and weaken his hold on the Senate, making any further of their legislative goals completely unattainable.
__________________
Reading Vasily Grossman, Life and Fate | Asylum | Book List
John Self is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd Nov 2010, 2:30   #540
Beth
Senior Palimpsester
suckles at the teat of the Palim-God
 
Beth's Avatar
 
Join Date: 22 Sep 2006
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,854
Default Re: US Presidential Election 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Self View Post
There are valid reasons for the 'haves' in US healthcare (ie those with existing cover) to worry that universal coverage (not that Obama got that, but you know what I mean) would reduce the quality of their coverage by spreading the payouts too thin.
That doesn't appear to be the worry of the conservatives, JS, at least not as far as being afraid there could be a dilution of their own benefits. It's more a reluctance to pay for coverage for those who may be under or even unemployed, the thinking being that even if you have to make payments for care or borrow from family or the bank, that such would be preferable to ever increasing taxes on the general public to pay for the care of those who cannot afford it. Only thing is, health care is so expensive that even people who are reasonably employed often cannot pay for complex care.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSelf
For example in the UK, where we have a national health service of which I am very fond, you don't have to wait very long to hear another story in the media about new cancer drugs being refused NHS prescription because they're too expensive. Does that happen with insurance companies in the US?
Yes, all the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSelf

The one thing that seems to unite Tea Partiers is a desire for smaller government. This is culturally something that seems peculiar to many Europeans, but it's a strong tradition in the US
I think the reality is that big government is part and parcel of life here, but the perception of it is rejected by a seemingly encoded brain cell in some Americans that equates government (and its employees) with evil, dastardly "revenuers" (in the South) and a heavy handedness in such agencies as the FBI.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSelf

To be fair to Obama, I distinctly remember him saying in his acceptance speech in 2008 that the economic recovery would not be work "of one year, or even one term." Frankly now it looks as though one term is all he's going to get. I fully understand that recovery from the worst recession since the 1930s will take more than four years, but what I don't understand is why Obama has been so lily-livered in getting his legislative programme through. He started out with a stronger majority in the Senate than Bush had, and has barely got even one of his major policies enacted. No wonder liberals are revolting ... and responding by allowing conservatives to retake the House and weaken his hold on the Senate, making any further of their legislative goals completely unattainable.
Hmm, I don't know any liberals who've turned on Obama, though I'm sure there are some who, like Paul Krugman, think he didn't go far enough with the stimulus plan. I agree with Krugman, but the stimulus barely squeaked through as it was.

I think most people have short memories for the boring and the detailed, a general hatred of complex language. I know I do! It's so much more energizing to criticize than to hunker down and plod on with a degree of trust and the ability to remember historical details, dates, time lines, projections, stats. Those things just aren't very sexy.

Some say that Obama is condescending when he implies that people don't want to take the time (or can't) understand the benefits of the health care reform (there are many for all), or that they don't understand what happened in the financial meltdown. Bennett may be dealing with people who have "done their larnin" but where I sit the college grad rate is about 10%. The legislation is complex and well thought out; it can't just be dropped in people's laps overnight with a speedy to do guide for using it. It's going to take time for anyone to understand.

Anymore, I'm less apologetic about my frustration with those who really don't want to work!!-- at understanding, at reading things correctly, at listening, at remembering, at sitting down to analyze things and to be honest with themselves about their own motivations for wishing to see other people do without the most basic human needs. It's as though they've run an imaginary gauntlet. They may be somewhat impoverished, less than educated, but they believe they've attained a dream by simply staying afloat and out of the gutter. This tea party reaches out to those people in what I think is a blend of nostalgia and a crazy form of innocence. Of course it's silly to label all of the tea partiers as addle brained; some of them are very sweetly wistful for a world that just doesn't exist anymore.

Last edited by Beth; 3rd Nov 2010 at 2:46.
Beth is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Election 2005 John Self Politics & Society 70 6th Jul 2005 12:19
UK Election Poll Wavid Politics & Society 48 7th Dec 2004 10:20
Election poll Jerkass Politics & Society 130 16th Nov 2004 1:08
General Election 2005? Wavid Politics & Society 6 27th Sep 2004 13:39
Politics and Literature Wavid Politics & Society 2 6th Sep 2004 14:16


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 22:19.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.