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Old 28th Jan 2007, 19:11   #11
Kimberley
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Default Re: US Presidential Election 2008

I picked up a Time to read on the plane and it has an interesting gallery of various presidential hopefuls. Hillary of course is the only woman. I find that a little bizarre, frankly, in 2007. Apart from Condoleeza Rice -- surely contaminated by her association with the current president -- I'm trying to think of any other woman who might be possible.

So far Barack Obama appeals to me but it is early days yet.
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Old 31st Jan 2007, 21:40   #12
Beth
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Default Re: US Presidential Election 2008

Maureen Dowd today re:Hil

I'm still irked that she just didn't throw Bill out on his ear. That would have given her much more credibility and personal power. Kimberley, I can't think of any other women at the moment who might join the contenders. It seems Rice is not giving any indications that she might run.
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Old 1st Feb 2007, 8:04   #13
Ang
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Default Re: US Presidential Election 2008

My mother, who lives in Iowa, said many years ago:

"I would never vote for a woman for president. They're too wishy-washy."

Some people's mothers, eh?
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Old 1st Feb 2007, 9:13   #14
John from Paris
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Default Re: US Presidential Election 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimberley View Post
Apart from Condoleeza Rice --
Yes, whether Condoleezza Rice can subsequently disentangle herself from being Bush's henchwoman is an important factor.
If she does - it seems highly unlikely to me - I get the impression that, leaving Bush, Iraq and associated ideas out of the equation ( ), the woman has considerable intellectual credentials, and undoubted charisma.
But is Joe Public in the United States interested in that? Rice appears to live in some sort of personal vacuum: no photos of her walking her dogs, shopping in Manhattan, no partner, no kids... Can Americans handle this?

A propos of nothing, though still on the more general subject of 2008, I still remember the days following the 2004 election. I happened to be on the roof of Barcelona cathedral - not that the setting has anything to do with it, I just did... - when it was about 95% obvious that Bush had been convincingly re-elected. I was standing next to two American ladies, so I said hi and then asked them more or less point blank what their reaction was to the news. Their faces fell, and one of them said, "We've been crying." And I thought they were going to start again, but they didn't, quite - but they added, "We are just so sad."
It was a very touching out-of-time moment.

EDIT/PS: ... and the setting may have had something to do with it, after all, simply because it was so unusual...

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Old 4th Feb 2007, 19:50   #15
Maggie
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Default Re: US Presidential Election 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by John from Paris View Post
I was standing next to two American ladies, so I said hi and then asked them more or less point blank what their reaction was to the news. Their faces fell, and one of them said, "We've been crying." And I thought they were going to start again, but they didn't, quite - but they added, "We are just so sad.".
At the very least............given how our system works.......about half of our country was in tears. Speaking for myself........I still have moments of tearfulness. The reason being so far greater than Bush himself........it is WHY people voted for the man that evokes such pure unadulterated grief !

As far as who comes next..............I think we need to impeach and start over asap. I know this sounds very radical but it is my opinion that Bush and his administration are guilty of war crimes. I cannot see how we continue to allow this person cost the lives of other human beings......it may be beyond our stopping it now but we could call the man to task and take away his crown for God's sake. Bush has two more years to run this country into the ground, very scary when you realize how much has changed since 2000 and what our current issues are.

I think we need someone young. I like Clinton but she comes with a lot of political baggage. Obama would be great but I fear that the current political tactics ( The Karl Rovian tactics) will eat him up.

I don't know who I would want yet..........I know only one thing. This country will never again be viewed by the world as it was before Bush. We have crossed a line and we need a new "kind" of leader to try and heal our country, both inside and from the outside. To be fair to Bush, I do think we've been pushing the envelope for a long time. I believe that some of us in the U.S. of A., as a result of the division Bush has caused within the country, have come to feel (those of us who oppose what this administration has represented) in much the same way I would suppose some of the rest of the world has felt towards us for a long time, fearful, intimidated, threatened and helpless in the face of overwhelming power.

Hilary is a woman = different
Obama is young and of mixed origin = different

These two are on the top of my list so far.

Maggie (on a mini rant !)
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Old 5th Feb 2007, 9:04   #16
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Post Re: US Presidential Election 2008

Well, this is -sorry- longer, Maggie, so maybe a maxi-rant. But really more of a sad reflection.

As a Canadian, part of me feels I shouldn't be saying anything about 2008. But that's unfortunately not too realistic a distancing, since among other things, we're the northern "next-door-neighbour" to the US, and are probably one of their most active (and uncomfortable) trading partners. 33 million Canadians and about 600 million Americans. And an aggressive US administration. Without any reflection on individual American citizens, who are themselves divided and heartsick about the present and the future of their country - it's still not too hard to imagine who calls most of the policy shots.

And I agree with both Maggie's and John's concerns and perspectives.

One particularly bizarre thing is how easily, (or not), election maneuvring can go "TILT" for reasons which no one might have anticipated. I'll quote a little bit from the big weekend issue of The Globe and Mail here. It's about Obama, and it starts as a very visible chunk at the bottom of the Front Page, and blossoms into a full page with huge photos later in the first section. (Possibly other papers have been making weekend hay with this news (?) too... but this was what I happened to see. Edited down, of course, b/c it's broad and long.)
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Will Obama go up in smoke?

Senator could find cigarettes, not race, block White House bid,
SINCLAIR STEWART reports

"Last month, just days before he declared his White House ambitions, a bare-chested Barack Obama appeared in the pages of People magazine, the victim of a stealthy photographer who had trailed him to a Hawaiian beach. For the senator from Illinois, this tabloid apppearance ... was the source of considerable embarrassment. ...

"Forget, for a moment, that Mr. Obama is black. Leave aside that he experimented with drugs as a teenager, and that his middle name, Hussein, might cause some consternation in the heartland. Because in order for this Harvard-educated lawyer to inherit the mantle of JFK, he must first follow in the footsteps of FDR - the last cigarette smoker that American voters have endorsed as president. ...

" 'For someone to run for public office and publicly smoke would be a very difficult thing to pull off," says [one policy pundit], "Especially if you're looking to occupy the highest office in the land."

[Stewart continues]: "Of course, Mr. Obama is far too canny a politician to light up in front of the cameras. Like Laura Bush (allegedly), he is a surreptitious smoker - and a guilty one too.

"When a reporter asked him in 2005 about his oft-rumoured habit, he turned to the gospel [sic] of Matthew for an explanation: "The flesh is weak." Lately he has professed a desire to quit, and insisted he is "not proud" of his dependency."

And more. Truman banned smoking from all White House social functions, Ike went from 4 packs a day to 0, before winning the presidency; Johnson and Nixon likewise; Reagan (who in his younger years had appeared in ads for Chesterfield cigarettes), quit in 1960. The remainder, including Bush, are granted a limited sort of amnesty with cigars - because they are signs of affluence, and discriminating taste. Presumably.

What's all this about? First, I hold no brief for smoking, and most of us know it's been or is being banned in almost every public area, indoors, and even in some areas outside buildings in this country, and I don't know how many in various of the U.S. States.

____ But isn't there something a little skewed here? Yes, smoking, first-hand, second-hand, whatever, is definitely dangerous, and if pursued long enough, it's usually lethal. And it's not yet perhaps clear whether Barack Obama or someone else is really well-enough equipped to handle the job of President of the USA.

But articles and issues like this one are not, it seems to me, what made the elderly ladies in JfP's rather touching story weep. Nor are they addressing the major concerns in Maggie's post.

This kind of journalism - and behind it, if I remember from the last US election, the kind of ruthless opportunism it represents, can scupper even the most promising potential candidate before he/she even has one good leg started in what is always a long and fairly vicious race.

It's worrying in this case because, for one thing, The Globe and Mail is not a rag. Normally, it's a very conservative, financially-oriented paper, and in fact many readers are wary of it for those very reasons.

But it seems to me that in this front-page "news leak", it's behaving very much like the tabloid press the writer seems to distinguish himself from. Catching a "guilty" Obama out, in an unguarded moment (or relaying a story that does), and pretending then to document the whole dubious "moral" history of smoking or non-smoking presidents since FDR? Please. Smoking is Not Good. OK. But the magnitude of the moral issues mentioned above, which face the US or any part of the western world which is, or perceived to be, aligned with it, presents a far, far larger dilemma, and an infinitely more complex set of problems to solve.

What, among all the other vexed issues facing concerned voters in 2008, are they to do with the mess of newspapers, TV and radio reporting, internet news, "dedicated" websites, and all those other sources which lump themselves so handily together, - the "media"?

Mediating what, exactly?


And I'm not at all encouraged by recollections from the last time around, when this kind of journalism became the norm rather than the exception.

Sorry to be glum. It's just a bit hard to know where to look, when stroppy but acute writers are not sufficiently read, and when journalists (with some brave and honourable exceptions), are sat upon by their editors or cable magnate owners. And vision becomes something sinister -"embedded."

If enough of us march in the streets again, (Ghandi, M.L. King, Viet Nam protestors), will anyone listen? Finally?

I hope so.

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Old 5th Feb 2007, 18:21   #17
Maggie
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Default Re: US Presidential Election 2008

Aemy,
Marching in the streets would do wonders...........marching in the streets could make a big change. Unfortunatly to get most people to feel compelled to march in the streets, they need to be directly affected by the cause for which they decide to make a stand.
This administration has been a master at keeping the masses from being directly affected by what they are doing (though the future cost to our country and it's citizens is beyond comprehension) If our government were to insititute a draft, the streets would be full of people. If the powers that be decided to ration gas, marcher's would turn out in force. If our taxes were to sky rocket so as to pay for this debachle rather than the cost being applied to an out-of-control debt..............you can bet people would stage a protest.

This is the true cause for all the angst I have been feeling. Have we come so far off center, that we don't care to see anything but what directly affects us. And, can we no longer see that what happens to one of us, no matter how small or insignificant that individual may be in relation to ourselves, WILL eventually affect us all ?

As far as Obama's unfortunate habit..............I find it a bit less offensive than being led around by the nose by someone who has been quoted as saying that the Constitution of the country he is leading is "just a Goddamn piece of paper" (YES, Bush did say this.........amazing isn't it ?)

My husband claims that as the election heats up Hilary Clinton will become ruthless..........she will pull out all the stops and destroy all of the other candidates..................I wonder what the heck he thought happened in our last election ? (above mentioned loved one is a Repulican ....no matter who they run. Makes for interesting times in my home at election time .......come to think of it, it has been pretty fiesty around here since 2000)

Maggie
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Old 5th Feb 2007, 18:40   #18
Maggie
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Default Re: US Presidential Election 2008

Speaking of marchs.........I realize that this has little to do with the next election but it is of a political nature


Aemy just mentioned marching in the streets.........I just replied and mentioned that my husband was a staunch Republican.....

True story :
Two summers ago a group of anti-war protesters staged a candlelight march along the lake front in Milwaukee Wisconsin. Of course being a child of the sixties, I was one of the first ones there. A friend and I made signs, carried candles and sang the old protest songs. There were a couple of thousand people. The news media from all of the local tv channels were on hand to record all the hoop-a-la. One of the news men chose, out of the couple of thousand people, to interview me. I answered his questions, made a few comments and went on my way. I watched him interview quite a few individuals. My husband was home on the couch, I had kind of neglected to tell him where I was going............at ten o'clock p.m. he said that he woke up because he heard me talking.........I was on the news protesting to anyone who cared to listen.............in front of God and everyone. I guess his Mom called him right away. Woke him up right quick! He has accused me of trying to give him a heart attack

When I worked on the Kerry campagian............Jack would always ask me before I went out the door if he needed to prepare himself or his family for any public apperances I may be making.

We shall see what 2008 brings...............

Maggie
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Old 5th Feb 2007, 22:22   #19
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Default Re: US Presidential Election 2008

Maggie:

Perhaps Jack is even now wondering if he should be getting in a supply of flak jackets for his/your extended family. (Just kidding.)

I admire your passion and conviction, - and it can't be easy living in a politically divided family.

Maybe you could protest with just the right amount of red, white, and blue facepaint strategically located in the obvious places? Then tuck your hair into a baseball cap, and talk to TV newspeople till they run out of video film...

Think J. would still spot you? (Then again, by this time, he can probably pick out your voice at 500 yards - or miles, if you're on TV.)

And re: my earlier post, it wasn't so much Obama I was concerned about, but the ludicrous lengths some (most?) of the media will go to to reinforce exactly one of the issues you identify: "This administration has been a master at keeping the masses from being directly affected by [or, earlier, even aware of] what they are doing ...." Yes, yes, and yes. (Those are for emphasis, not sequence.)

Distract, dissemble, minimize crucial issues, blow relatively "mini" concerns - like Obama's cigarette habit, - into something that looks like a mushroom-shaped cloud. I agree, it's all in the repertoire, and we've seen it so many times now. One hopeful thing is that people like you are actually out there being heard. And secondly, this time around, the incumbents may be much less likely to get away with that "Support us or you're not a true patriot" scare-line the Bush Corp. used to like so much.

People are (I hope) clueing in - and they may not be quite so easily intimidated this time. Let's hope, an earlier political bon mot comes into force again too. Even if you'd dearly love to, "you cannot fool all of the people all of the time"; especially when families are beginning to see too many loved ones not coming home - or not in any form that resembles the way they left.

Keep the faith, Maggie - (and maybe even the cap!) : )


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Old 15th Feb 2007, 17:24   #20
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Default Re: US Presidential Election 2008

We appear to have encountered the first tempest-in-a-teapot of this over-long bloody campaign. The first of thousands I'm sure.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...021201632.html
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