Robert Kilroy-Silk

[amner]

Wonderful to see Robert Kilroy-Silk stirring up UKIP from the inside, isn't it? Or, would you agree with him that they need to be a 'grown-up' party?

He might bear all the marks of one of those creepy gone-to-seed family members you only see at weddings and funerals, and then steer your girlfriend away from when he gets blathered, but doesn't he have a point about Knapman - who presumably couldn't get into the BNP on the grounds that they wanted to at least give the impression of respectability - ringing around party members and cajoling them into announcing their support?

What a mess.

[John Self]

My understanding is that Knapman's phone poll (which as Kilroy-Silk rightly said is tainted because people are unlikely to give someone on the phone an answer they don't want to hear) was hardly conclusive anyway. 108 out of 224 regional chairmen of UKIP supported Knapman's leadership, but because the majority of the remainder refused or failed to answer, he cites this as a "four- or five-to-one majority in my favour."

Anyway the internal struggles of idiotic politicos are always fun. As someone said on the News Quiz last week: if Kilroy-Silk did succeed, how would members of UKIP feel about their party being run by a coloured person?

http://www.therockalltimes.co.uk/2004/02/02/kilroy-silk.jpg

[Wavid]

UKIP are a single issue party. As such, they aren't going to get very far in the UK. They are a rag-tag bunch of people who hate the EU for whatever reason - usually from the right, but also from the left. (Don't forget that in 1983 Tony Blair argued vigorously for Britain to leave the European Community, which was seen by the left as a self-serving capitalist cartel.)

The only difference that UKIP's success or failure would make would be on the Tory party. By claiming that UKIP should try and 'kill' the Tory party, I think Kilroy-Silk misjudged the mood of the majority of members, and certainly the donors to the party. After all, many UKIP members are simply Tories who don't like the fact that the Conservative Party is currently run by liberal namby-pamby types like Michael Howard and John Redwood.

If UKIP follow the plan to stand in as many seats as possible, rather than concentrating on marginal seats held by pro-europeans, they will end up spreading themselves too thinly and won't get anywhere. All that will happen is that Labour and the Lib-Dems will pick up more seats than they would do otherwise. There are many, of course, who'd see this as A Good Thing.

Hopefully, like the Referendum Party before them, they will implode after the election.

[nimway]

Is this how it will be, we go the way of the US and end up with TV stars as Prime Ministers?

If that is the case then I'll hope for John Snow, Kirsty Wark, Khrishnan Guru-Murthy, Samira Ahmed, Germaine Greer, but please not Robert, it will be Jerry Springer next.

:roll:

[Colyngbourne]

Hi Nimway and welcome!

[John Self]

Welcome nimway. There was a fly-on-the-wall doc about Kilroy on BBC3 the other night which I didn't see but heard about. Apparently he came across relatively well, in that it was clear that between him and the UKIP, he was by far at the sane end of the spectrum. But only, I suppose, on that scale. All his talk at the launch of his new party Vanitas - I mean Veritas - about 'our' country being 'stolen' from us because of immigration did make my blood boil.

[Colyngbourne]

I seem to conflate RK-S and David Icke in my mind.

[John Self]

I've just seen David Icke's website and that's a whole new topic - dammit, a whole new forum - but in the meantime how about this (thanks for this to Wavid, who can't get onto the Palimp at the mo... :cry: )

Kilroy-Silk colleague linked to ex-National Front leader

Oliver Burkeman
Thursday February 3, 2005
The Guardian

A key member of Robert Kilroy-Silk's new political party co-founded an organisation with a former chairman of the National Front, the Guardian has learned.

Anthony Bennett, whose name appears in the Electoral Commission's database as the official leader of Mr Kilroy-Silk's party Veritas, was also fired from the UK Independence party last year after publishing a pamphlet describing the prophet Muhammad as a paedophile.

The revelations, coming the day after the official launch of Veritas, will call into question Mr Kilroy-Silk's insistence that his party's anti-immigration stance has nothing to do with racism or Islamophobia.

Yesterday Mr Bennett said he had not known that Ian Anderson was a former chairman of the National Front at the time that the two men helped to form the People's Campaign to Keep the Pound. "Had I known that, I probably wouldn't have joined it," he said.

But Mr Bennett called Mr Anderson "an English patriot" and said they were both still members of a local land-preservation organisation in Epping in Essex that organises an annual May fair.

"He's a well-respected committee member of that organisation ... I don't know that one could dignify that with the word 'link'," he said.

Mr Bennet himself had "always stood for social justice," he said. The Electoral Commission's records, he added, were being updated to show Mr Kilroy-Silk as the official leader of Veritas.

"Robert Kilroy-Silk's not going to be pleased about this," Mr Anderson said. He confirmed that he had been a chairman of the National Front but said he had now left politics.

Mr Bennett has been working as a researcher for Mr Kilroy-Silk after being banned, last year, from holding any Ukip office for two years because of his writings on Islam. Mr Kilroy-Silk said at the time that Mr Bennett's remarks about Muhammad had been part of a "reasoned, academic exposition" aimed at explaining the reasons behind the September 11 terrorist attacks.

Mr Kilroy-Silk, 62, elected as a member of the European parliament under the Ukip banner, was sacked from his BBC talk show after writing a newspaper column disparaging Arabs as "limb-amputators".

After failing in his bid to lead Ukip, he left the party last month, accusing its members of being "rightwing fascist nutters". He could not be reached for comment last night.

Nigel Farage, Ukip's leader in the European parliament, said: "Tony Bennett is an energetic campaigner, with some extremely eccentric and individualistic views."

[nimway]

Thanks for the welcome Colyngbourne.

John, may I use that, VANITAS, how wonderful.

I'm an immigrant, I immigrated myself here from Switzerland in 1971, and before that I'd immigrated myself from Eire, I hope KS doesn't think that people like me have ruined the country, I'm feeling furious about that. I believe that everything that is good about Britain is because of the mix. And I came here to get away from two very homogenous societies, one was my country, Ireland, and the other was Switzerland.

In Swizzerland when I was there I had to renew my permit every six months, and if I wanted to be a citizen, I'd have had up to a 10 to 15 year wait.

So I came here, where at least I was speaking a language I could also think in and was understood, well most of the time. I did once have to explain the phrase "I'm only after doing it", to a colleague.

TRANSLATION: I've already done it.

[ono no komachi]

Welcome nimway. There was a fly-on-the-wall doc about Kilroy on BBC3 the other night which I didn't see but heard about. Apparently he came across relatively well, in that it was clear that between him and the UKIP, he was by far at the sane end of the spectrum. But only, I suppose, on that scale. All his talk at the launch of his new party Vanitas - I mean Veritas - about 'our' country being 'stolen' from us because of immigration did make my blood boil.

Apparently we terrestrial types can see 'Beyond the Tan' (could this be some kind of 'beyond the pale' reference?) on BBC2 at 22:00 this Saturday.

[John Self]

Yes nimway, you can use Vanitas, though sadly I didn't think of it, I read it somewhere.

"I'm only after doing it" makes perfect sense to me - but then I am a (Northern) Irishman. It's funny the everyday phrases you never think of being parochial until someone doesn't understand them. Even friends outside Belfast don't understand when I use the verb "to smit", meaning to pass on your (cold or flu etc) germs to someone else. "I'll try not to smit you." The egregious Colin Murray on Radio 1, a fellow countryman (and yes I am ashamed), once asked a caller "what age are you?" to be greeted with bafflement. He had to reword it to "how old are you?" That one surprises me though, surely it's self-explanatory?

Thanks for the info ono.

[amner]

:roll:

From our local rag:

It's Gypsy Rose Kilroy . . .
Published on 05 February 2005
TRAVELLERS and residents alike feel nothing positive would come out of Robert Kilroy-Silk's planned week-long stay at Smithy Fen in Cottenham.

The Euro MEP, who this week launched his new political party, Veritas, was expected to try to get the two sides to talk for his Channel Four television programme Kilroy and the Gypsies.

Plans were in place for Kilroy to be in the village on Thursday to chair a meeting in a secret location with travellers from Cottenham and Billericay and local residents.

But both travellers and residents are sceptical.

Pierre Marx, who lives in Cundell Drive, Cottenham, said: "It is purely a publicity stunt with no benefit towards the residents of Cottenham.

"It won't put the problem any more in the news than it already is and the underlying problem will not be solved at the end."

Irene Baldry, who also lives in Cottenham, said: "There needs to be some serious thinking about what does and doesn't need to be done and I don't think this is going to help anyone."

Another resident, who did not want to be named, said: "I wouldn't have thought it would have any benefit. I can't really make up my mind about it but I have to say I am not Kilroy's biggest fan."

Roger Slattery, a member of the gypsy council, said: "I don't know anything about it and I don't know what his motive is. He is not supportive of anyone and I think he is just in it for himself."

Another resident said: "It is ludicrous. I'm sure on the programme the sites will be cleaned and everyone will be on their best behaviour just for the cameras. I don't agree with all these meetings behind closed doors which are not for the people of Cottenham."

Charles Smith, chairman of the gypsy council, said he was approached by Channel Four about the programme but told them he would refuse to take part if Kilroy was being paid a substantial amount and the travellers missed out.

"I don't see any problem with him living with travellers and I would love for him to be there if they were evicted to see what it was really like," he said.

"The fact that we are so under-represented in the media means that anything which shows what life is really like is good."

As a resident of said village I must say how nice it is to finally find the locals and the travellers agreeing on something. Harmony and unity, but probably not as RK-S imagined.

[John Self]

He is not supportive of anyone and I think he is just in it for himself

How true. When the shit hit the fan (as opposed to the shit hitting the tan last year, copyright Paul Merton probably) over the Arabs article and there were lots of 'think-pieces' in the papers about RKS, I remember a comment made by a former close associate of Kilroy's in the Labour party, who said:

Bob is a law unto himself. ... He has elevated the lack of principle to an art form. I wouldn't have thought he believed [in Ukip] any more than he believes in anything else. Bob is about Bob Kilroy-Silk Promotions. He is very good at it. So I don't take any of his politics seriously really. Well, I take his politics as seriously as he does. ... I remember saying to him, did he enjoy academic work when we both became university lecturers in the same year. He said: 'Well, I'd really love a white Mercedes.' Bob tends to move on. From academic life to parliamentary life, to television and to showbiz. I don't think he is really interested in politics. He is interested in Bob Kilroy-Silk and the money. He freely admits that. As he said to me when he went into television: 'I am not into news or current affairs. I am into entertainment. That is my business.'

You can read the whole piece including an interview with Kilroy here (http://www.guardian.co.uk/farright/story/0,11981,1233811,00.html).

[amner]

I have told Mrs Amner that if he knocks on the door during the day, when I'm not in, then she has my permission to get the kids to tell him to bugger off.

We have enough of a media circus going on (the Daily Mail and GMTV love us) without him adding his particular brand of 'advice'.

[John Self]

So, UKIP. I was highly amused just now to discover that their website is the first result when you google for swivel eyed (http://www.ukip.org/index.php). Not a specific article on their website: just the home page. Surely someone must have worked that to happen as a prank?

Anyway, when I went on and clicked on their website I was even more amused to find their poll on the front page:

Do you believe that climate change is a genuine problem, or a myth?
a. It is a real threat to future generations. The evidence of climate change is all around us: 22.4% (24 votes)
b. It is a myth based on speculation and questionable scientific evidence, and is just an excuse to raise more taxes: 77.6% (83 votes)

So, getting a lot of hits, then... Fortunately UKIP supporters are all in their dotage and will be dead before the global warming thing really takes off.

And here's their poll archive. Don't you just love the way the options reflect the way people really speak? This time I'm not going to give you the results, and you can guess which one the majority of UKIP site visitors chose. It's not difficult.

When do you think Tony Blair should stand down as Prime Minister?
a. As soon as possible. He is a thoroughly discredited figure, and he has had his day.
b. He should go on as long as possible. He secured a third term only last year, and he has a mandate from the voters.
c. Don't care. It won't make any difference who takes over from him. The EU is really in charge.

Do the recently released immigration figures indicate a Britain that has lost control of its borders, or a nation which has a vibrant economy enriched by migrants from across Europe and the rest of the world?
a. We have a dynamic economy which has been enhanced by the inflow of migrants.
b. We have lost control of our borders. The number of migrants far exceeds the capacity of our infrastructure.

(Clue - that one went 91% to 9%)

Do you agree that the flag of the European Union should be recognised as a national flag alongside the Union Flag?
a. Yes: The UK is a member of the European Union and the 'ring of stars' should have equal status to the Union Flag.
b. No: This is another move to establish a national identity for a European superstate.

(94% to 6%...)

Do you think speed cameras make our roads safer?
YES: They catch people who drive too fast and they serve as a warning to drivers to slow down.
NO: They are being used for raising revenue, not improving road safety and statistics show that they make no difference to the number of road accidents.

Do you think the mile should be phased out in favour of the kilometre in time for the London Olympics?
No. There are major safety concerns and the estimated cost is huge (£800m), while the benefits are negligible at best.
Yes. Imperial measurements have had their day and it is time for Britain to get in step with the rest of Europe.

(Amazing, isn't it, how the UKIP interests seem to cover the gamut of idiot-obsessions, and not just Europe?)

And many more, including ones where tendentiousness reaches new heights, like "Following the forcible ejection of an 82 year old man from the Labour Party Conference and the subsequent use of anti-terrorism legislation to further restrain him, is freedom of speech dying under new Labour?". I particularly liked "What do you think of the new European Commission? Would you buy a used car from them?" and this one:

Do you believe that the state should subsidise political parties in the UK?
Yes: The loans for peerages scandal has shown that the funding of political parties urgently needs reform so that these sleazy deals are no longer necessary. (10.1%)
No: With schools and hospitals short of money, subsidising political parties would be unsupportable and why should taxpayers have to support parties for whom they may never vote? (89.9%)

Ah yes, political parties for whom people will never vote. At last UKIP is talking on a subject it knows something about.

[Stewart]

So, UKIP. I was highly amused just now to discover that their website is the first result when you google for swivel eyed (http://www.ukip.org/index.php). Not a specific article on their website: just the home page. Surely someone must have worked that to happen as a prank?

It's been googlebombed for over a year (http://timworstall.typepad.com/timworstall/2005/03/google_bombs.html).

[John Self]

Ah excellent, thanks Stew. Some other good ones in there: ignorant bigots gets you Christian Voice. Liar gets you Tony Blair (must have been quite a lot of work to get one word to point to a specific page). I wonder what crap author gets...?

[leyla]

Only came across this thread today, but thought I'd add my tuppence worth about Kilroy-Silk. After I wrote the MRSA articles in 2003, I was invited on to his programme. Thinking naively that perhaps this was an opportunity to discuss the problem and get my points across, I went. I was told by a researcher on the day that I would be the first one to speak when the cameras started to roll, so I spent the two hours before the programme started being filmed mentally articulating what I would say. Literally five minutes before the cameras started to roll, the researcher came up to me and said 'Just making sure, you ARE going to start off with an account of how filthy the hospitals are, and say how lazy the cleaners are, aren't you? Because we're getting the cleaners to defend themsleves right after you've spoken'. I was aghast - my articles had always had sympathy with the cleaners whose remit was vast and I felt they did their best with the huge number of wards they had to cover - the problem was understaffing, filthy equipment, miserliness with amounts of detergent, lack of separate cloths to clean contaminated areas (so, for example, mops which cleaned the floor also went inside loo bowls - yuk). I said so, and the researcher flapped about in a panic and basically told me that Kilroy wanted me to slag the cleaners off - it would make much better TV, have much more of an impact with the viewers, etc. I totally refused to do that and she went running back to K-S and never came back to me - so as far as I was informed, i was still meant to be talking first. But the great god K- ws obviously displeased and went out of his way to be cold towards me - not only did he not come to me first when they started shooting, but he basically didn't come to me at all spontaneously - the only way I got to speak was by just speaking when i had something to say, and since once someone starts speaking Kilroy has to let them speak or else risks looking like an ogre (there is no editing, so if he interupts someone and cuts them off, it is there in the programme that goes on air), I did manage to say quite a bit. But I had to just talk - if I'd waited for him to come to me in the way he usually does with guest speakers, I would have waited for ever. Often, i raised my hand while the cameras were on him, so that he could see that I had something to say, but he ignored me most of the time and so, although I did get to speak a lot, it was only because I spoke spontaneously rather than waiting for him to edge his permatanned face towards me and uge me to speak. There was another medical consultant on, an obstetrician - he was introduced as a consultant, while I wasn't as far as I can recall - not that I mind about stuffy things like that but it was obvious that K-S was annoyed by my failure to sycophantically agree to fit in with his sensationalist, tabloid-esque idea of having doctors slag off cleaners. At the end, KS went round shaking hands with all the other invited speakers - the other consultant, etc - and pointedly missed me out. Funnily enough, at the time, even though it was way before I found out he was racist, I wondered if his problem was anything to do with the fact that although not dark skinned, I do look slightly foreign: I have had that sort of disdain before on very rare occasions (my headmistress at school who disliked me from sight and always said I'd never make it to med school, a girl at medical school who, not realising I was in the room behind her, announced to her friend 'we've got that girl with the funny foreign name in our tutorial group - why can't she get a nice English name like Rachel?'). It really doesn't bother me because I think it only shows up the ignorance of these people (and paradoxically,made me always work harder as I had to prove myself to be a high achiever and not an immigrant scrounger). So, K-S - ick. What is he up to now?

[John Self]

Interesting! What you should have done, of course, was nod enthusiastically to the researcher and then when the programme started, say what you were going to say and add that Kilroy had wanted you to say something different because it would "make good television." That would have turned his little orange face bright red.

[leyla]

:lol: :lol: JS! Great image! Not sure the colour control on the nation's tellies would have coped...

Btw, when i asked what he's up to nowadays, i meant apart from his venal 'political' activities. Is he ranting in any of the tabloids?

[John Self]

I was going to introduce this link by saying "Kilroy's finally lost it," but we all know that, if he ever had it in the first place, it went long ago. So here it is anyway.

Kilroy accuses M&S over 'distorting' mirrors (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6357035.stm)

[leyla]

Maybe it's because in their mirrors he looks orange. (Might not only be their mirrors, Bob...)

[MisterHobgoblin]

It might be amusing, but it's also true. M&S use tilted mirrors that make people look larger underneath (ankles and legs), normal in the middle (hips), and smaller on top (tummies and chest/bust). Apparently this produces images that women find flattering. But I don't think they are unique in this tactic.

[HP]

'New Look'* mirrors are pretty shite, that's for sure. In fact, it's not just a matter of the mirrors but the appalling lighting they use in their changing rooms. But then I've arrived at the age where flattering lighting is everything ...

* New Look is a chain of cheap and cheerful boutique shops for those who aren't familiar with them.

[jim]

* New Look is a chain of cheap and cheerful boutique shops for those who aren't familiar with them.

And who are, I very much hope, agreeing as we speak to pay my wife vast sums of money to act as a trend consultant for them.

[John Self]

They certainly need one. If they have any cash left over they can employ a clothes designer too.

[jim]

Hey - she already designs knitwear for them - what are you saying!:-)

[Colyngbourne]

Can she design proper wooly jumpers for teenage girls in the 9-15 range that are classy and plain? :-D

[John Self]

Um, ooer... :oops: I must have been thinking of Primark...

[HP]

New Look is positively civilised and sophisticated compared to Primark. The nicest mirrors I know belong to a much smaller chain called Jane Norman. But again, it's not really the mirrors that are so great but the clever lighting.

[Colyngbourne]

Perhaps now is not the time to remark that I was wearing items from Primark on the BDO last year (or perhaps it was obvious! :-D)

And Primark pyjamas are excellent!

[jim]

Can she design proper wooly jumpers for teenage girls in the 9-15 range that are classy and plain? :-D

I'll let you know what kind of a response that request gets.

Um, ooer... :oops: I must have been thinking of Primark

You obviously spend too much time hanging around in women's shops.:-D

[HP]

Perhaps now is not the time to remark that I was wearing items from Primark on the BDO last year (or perhaps it was obvious! :-D)

And Primark pyjamas are excellent!

It's not the clothes, Col, it's the queues and mess and general sense of a free-for-all. Go into our local branch in Southampton and it looks like world war three has just broken out - clothes hurled anywhere and everywhere, only one till working in every two and a queue half way round the store and out into the street. You need to be very, very determined to face the ordeal - it's certainly not a pleasure, believe me.

[Colyngbourne]

Oh yes, it is like a 1970's jumble sale (been in a few of them in my time!) - total chaos.

[John Self]

Go into our local branch and it looks like world war three has just broken out - clothes hurled anywhere and everywhere, only one till working in every two and a queue half way round the store and out into the street. You need to be very, very determined to face the ordeal

Precisely correct (though in my - one or two visits - experience, New Look was much the same). I only go into Primark when I'm forced to by my better half (it's very good for basics, apparently...). Our local branch, which spreads out over four floors, got a total revamp and reinstallation last year. It looked nice for about a week.

[HP]

Haha ... love it! So let me get this right, then, Mr S: you thought it was New Look that should get a new fashion designer, then changed your mind and said it must be Primark. Yet you claim your fiancée shops in both. So not only have you insulted Jim's wife and Col, but your beloved, too!

Perhaps the area manager for New Look stores around here is just a smarter cookie than the one for your area. I haven't a quibble as far as tidyness and cleanliness goes with any of their local outlets. Though it gets a little challenging getting dressed and undressed in their pint-size changing cubicles without bruising elbows.

[Colyngbourne]

I'm not insulted :-D I know what JS means - Primark is hardly sophisticated goods to look at, but it is good for 'basics'. I imagine for a man, it's a far nicer shopping experience viewing the clothes in shops other than Primark - it is for women too!

[John Self]

Silly me - it was of course A-wear (http://www.awear.ie/index.php)that I was talking about. Or Internacionale.

Gosh, is that the time...?

[John Self]

That's right Col. I'm actually one of those odd males who likes shopping, but when my dearly beloved drags me into such stores even I draw the line.

[HP]

S'alright John, no need for bluster - your secret's safe with us. Heck - we love you because of your little foibles. Now, do tell, are you more a frills and pussy-cat bow type or something a little more sleek and sophisticated?

[leyla]

Last summer I was looking for a 100% cotton knee length skirt that was loose enough to feel cool in. The only shop I found one which fitted all my requirements was Primark. It was on sale and cost £1. Less than the tube fare into town.

[MisterHobgoblin]

Less than the tube fare into town.
Would that be the clockwork orange?

[leyla]

Yes. It looks like a toy train compared with the dirty and sometimes (late at night) scary London tube. And it stops at a ridiculously early hour but it's rather cute and does the job.

[MisterHobgoblin]

I love it. It is so 1970s and, as you say, it is like a real tube, but smaller. It smells a bit, though.

[Ang]

I'm actually one of those odd males who likes shopping
Stop right there, that is just way too sexy.

[leyla]

Yes, John. If you like babies too then you can be the official Palimp dreamboat.

[Hinton]

Damn you Self! I like shopping too you know. Fortunately I have an extensive list of bad habits and unfortunate quirks to make up for it, I can't stand young children either. There will be no dreamboat threat from this quarter.