How to submit to an agent ( not how you might imagine...)

[Colyngbourne]

Until I get myself to the library, can anyone give advice on how to lay out a submission (synopsis + three chapters) to a lit. agent? Is it double spacing or is 1.5 okay? I know pages have to be numbered. What sort of mention of copyright should there be etc.?

Nerve-wracked, :roll:
Colyngbourne

[amner]

Competely non-clued up on the actual physical lay-out side, but I do have a draft letter than an agent told me would get my manuscript read as opposed to immediately rejected. I can pm it to you if you like?

[Colyngbourne]

Oh yes, do PM it to me, thank you - I've trawled around for tips on lay-out and it appears to be double spacing with wide margins. Then there's whether you put your name and the title on each page and at what side, and what the title page should look like, and exactly how long should a synopsis be...

But the initial query/cover letter is the scariest bit, so I'd appreciate the advice!

[Wavid]

Not sure about the spacing and that, but as for copyright, I believe it's always a good idea to send yourself a copy of the manuscript by registered post, and leave it unopened.

That way you can prove you wrote in when you did, should (unlikely) things not go to plan.

[wshaw]

Double spacing.... numbered pages... name of author and piece at top or bottom. A regular style for paragraphs - usually spaced again.

That's about it for the m/s apart from getting the spulling rite. and punctuation;

I wouldn't worry about copyright unless you're sending it to shady people. Copyright is yours whether you assert it or not. I'd say that sticking a copyright mark on it suggests you think who ever you are sending it too are indeed shady people and need reminding...

The letter? Apart from telling them what sort of work you're sending them, I'd say the letter is pretty crucial.

Their slush pile is already as deep as your novel is undoubtedly profound. They need subtly persuading that your manuscript deserves attention.

There are plenty of great novelists out there. Undoubtedly more than the market needs or can sustain. And about a million times more short story writers than the market needs because nobody in this country actually reads short stories.

Shallow though it may be, they want to know that either you're a fascinating media friendly person whose accompanying bio will help sell the novel to shallow journalists. However if you're not Zadie Smith, they want to know what other weight your book carries. Are you an expert in the field you're writing about, etc? Do you have a story?

Really, of course, they want to hear that you're already famous. This isn't easy. But it's not always impossible. One friend I know who'd written a historical novel was a provincial lawyer. Not very sexy, CV-wise. However (on my advice, I boast) he sent the m/s to three authors he admired. It was my guess that published authors are mainly sad, stay-at-home people who don't mind hearing from other writers half as much as we imagine they might.

He sent the book out to two people. My guess was right. Both responded. One was a very famous thriller writer who asked if she could send it to her agent and has happily supplied a ringing endorsement for the cover.

The bastard now has a three book deal and the original m/s is out this month and being published in multiple territories.

And I'm furious with envy, of course. damn damn damn.

[amner]

[...makes notes furiously...]

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[Colyngbourne]

:D Wow! Thanks for all that advice, wshaw - I do a contact who used to be in children's publishing (this would be a book for mid-teens, I think), so I might get in touch with her.

[NottyImp]

Sounds like having contacts is very useful... shame I haven't got any! :cry:

[wshaw]

Sounds like having contacts is very useful... shame I haven't got any! :cry:

It's sadly true... it ain't what you know... Just look at any publisher's list. But I think if you write the main intention is to get people to read your stuff. The way I see it, writing doesn't really exist until it's being read, if that makes any sense.

And if you want to get people to read it you have to accept that no-one's going to come looking for your work of genius. You have to find a way to persuade people to look at it...

And if you're resourceful in finding a way to get their attention, publishers and agents will only respect you for it. The British publishing industry is notorious for publishing far more books than sales can sustain - compared to the US, say, where publishers generally produce far fewer titles but then work them harder. So they want to hear anything that'll make your book stand out.

[NottyImp]

Until I get myself to the library, can anyone give advice on how to lay out a submission (synopsis + three chapters) to a lit. agent?

So Colynbourne, I gather from this you are approaching a completed project? When do we get to read some :D

[NottyImp]

And if you want to get people to read it you have to accept that no-one's going to come looking for your work of genius. You have to find a way to persuade people to look at it...

Good advice - my only experience of being published was a short story in a small-press Sci-Fi/Fantasy mag, and I'd hawked half-a-dozen efforts around half-a-dozen magazines before that got accepted.

I always tell the story of an interview I read with Ian Banks from a 1988 SF mag. He'd written two full novels and sent them to just about everybody before his third novel finally got accepted. Yep, Ian Banks himself had to write 3 full novels to get published! Makes you wonder...

[wshaw]

[quote]
So Colynbourne, I gather from this you are approaching a completed project? When do we get to read some :D

I'll show you mine if you show me yours.

[NottyImp]

Well, you know what happens in this situation, don't you wshaw? I get to say "You first." :lol:

[amner]

This isn't aimed at anyone in particular, but if you want to go for it, Wavid or I can bung things up on Features for all to see. Just pm us.
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[NottyImp]

Cheers, amner, when I've got something else, I'll let you know...

[Colyngbourne]

Me too - still thinking about it!

[NottyImp]

Interesting comment from a web-article about getting published:

So my advice is to write one novel, then put it away for at least a year while you write one or two more. That’s hard to do, but those who’ve taken my advice agree absolutely with it and say things like, ‘How could I have thought the book was ready?’ when they come to re-read their manuscripts.

And this would seem to be sound advice:

http://www.mindspring.com/~profmike/sellbook.htm

[amner]

That link doesn't work Notty :D
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[Clem Feeney]

To discourage you all further, has anyone read Issac Asimov's collection of his first attempts at sci-fi. It's called "The Early Asimov - or eleven years of trying". The title refers to the gap between first attempting to get published, and the publication of his first novel. (Fortunately for him he was a "Golden Age" author, ie there was a big market for short stories at the time.)

[Colyngbourne]

:roll: well, the first half of my manuscript has been sent to a publisher. I'm still not expecting any great results, despite the kind recommendation. It feels a bit like comparing home-baked food with boughten stuff - very pleasant (possibly chewy :wink: ) but not in the professional mode.

[amner]

I'm trying to approach this from a similar angle, Colyngbourne.

On Wednesday evening Heffers in Cambridge are running their apparently very popular Bodies in the Bookshop seminar, featuring thirty-odd crime writers; enough to give everybody a bit of one-on-one time. I'm hoping to get there early and bend someone's ear about my very own magnum opus. I'll report back on Thursday...
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[amner]

have now been to this. Interesting... (http://www.palimpsest.org.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=190)
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[Colyngbourne]

Wah! :shock: Just had a phonecall from the publisher. Eep! Nauseated terror becomes me!

[amner]

Tea.

Nick Cave.

Draw curtains ...
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[Colyngbourne]

Unfortunately...

Dental appointment in fifteen mins

But Nick Cave (Boatman's Call) on whilst I took the phonecall

Kids galore running about the place (mine and surrounding ones)


Lots of red wine later tonight. 8)

[Flutty]

So...

Just found this thread. It has been sitting here since 2003.

So... what happened. Col did you get published. Did the others write their stories.

And another question: since 2003, there has been a development of fan-fic sites and on-demand-print-only publishing sites. Has this had any effect on how to get published?

[Colyngbourne]

Not yet, Flutty, though I've been within an ace of it: I met with one major publisher and he hovered between "yes and no". And then it was 'no', obviously ;-) A couple of others have requested the full manuscript, and in the meantime I've almost completed another story. I'm still pushing it out to agents, and preparing the next one to send out as well - the story is unusual enough to catch attention but it falls between "too old" for children's agencies and publishers and "hard to place" on the adult lists.

I wouldn't consider any of the print-on-demand options.

[Flutty]

I wouldn't consider any of the print-on-demand options.

For children's lit I would have thought that presentation and graphics need to be top quality, thus ruling out print-on-demand options.

[Colyngbourne]

For children's lit I would have thought that presentation and graphics need to be top quality, thus ruling out print-on-demand options.

What I write doesn't need graphics - it's for kids aged 15+ and adults. but I still wouldn't do it.

[gil]

[Flutty] Are you saying that print on demand quality is low? I have a couple of these, and they are fine, though the shiny covers have a tendency to curl. But have you seen some major publishers' paperbacks? Quite apart from terrible covers, there's the misplaced / missing section issue and dreadful smudgy print quality. Most of my Patrick O'Brian pbs are very badly printed, and I have a Crow Road in which the full-stops and commas are so small that you can't distinguish between them in normal reading, and some are just not there.

[Flutty]

[Flutty] Are you saying that print on demand quality is low?

Well not the print quality from the printing presses.

What I meant about the childrens books is that the self-publisher has to pay to get decent graphics or graphic artists. These people are not cheap. And any skimping on costs here will quickly show.

And also these self-published books are now typeset effectively by the author. I saw a colleagues word doc reproduced exactly by the publisher, page by page.

[amner]

Ironic that this thread should crop up again...I've just sent my m/s back out into the world...

Why, why??! Why do I do this to myself?

[Colyngbourne]

Because it's good, that's why ;-)

Here's to trying again with my m/s too!

[gil]

the self-publisher has to pay to get decent graphics or graphic artists. These people are not cheap. And any skimping on costs here will quickly show.

Ah, I see.