Polish immigrants, immigration/emigration generally

[m.]

Hey. Before I went to the States, even when I registered here in November last year, UK was just one country where Poles emigrate but now, suddenly, it seems like this is the country. I had never felt awkward thinking about Polish immigrants in England, in fact if things had turned out a different way, who knows, I might be one. Some of my acquaintances worked in England some time ago. Still, the last wave of immigration after May 1 seems different. I've been reading articles in online editions of Polish newspapers and the picture I've got is pretty dire. According to one article, in 2003, 300 thousand Poles entered England (data of Visiting Britain) and about 25 % stayed (estimation); but after May it's 130 buses (about 6500 persons) weekly (according to the Victoria Green Line because there are no official statistics.) The people who arrive are often completely unprepared, in terms of money and language skills. I've got mixed feeling towards all this – of course I sympathize and I think the Polish government and media are to blame for the situation, for spreading all the propaganda, but also, for God's sake how some people can be so naïve. UK was always considered as attractive but difficult destination… Oddly, the most optimistic opinions are those I've read on forums of Poles living in London – they say that the fittest will stay, the rest will go back to Poland, and that the rush should abate quickly. They also say that the newspapers completely don't balance opinions, first they practically pushed people to this decision by writing about jobs waiting for Polish workers, now in search for sensation they write about the most pathetic cases ignoring positive examples of many people who made a conscious choice and were able to work things out.

I tried to google for a British perspective, but strangely I didn't come across anything worth mentioning. Do you have any thoughts and feel like sharing? Sorry for being more serious than usual but I have mixed feelings and insufficient information. I'd never thought that I would try to start a discussion about immigration/emigration with the things so close home. I was hoping that we'd talk about some related problems by the way of Namesake, but somehow I had never got round to writing this post, then I wanted to post something about immigrants in US, but never did…

[rick green]

Why would the Polish press encourage people to flee the country? And why to Engalnd in particular? Were the press officials misinformed, or have they ulterior motives?

[wshaw]

I've been reading articles in online editions of Polish newspapers and the picture I've got is pretty dire. According to one article, in 2003, 300 thousand Poles entered England (data of Visiting Britain) and about 25 % stayed (estimation); but after May it's 130 buses (about 6500 persons) weekly (according to the Victoria Green Line because there are no official statistics.)

Sigh. The figures are so ludicrously huge they are almost certainly bogus. An independent report from researchers at University College London, commissioned by the Home Office last year, estimated that 5,000-13,000 migrant workers might be expected to come to Britain from the 10 new EC member states in the first year. What axe are these online editions trying to grind by publishing such scare stories?

[NottyImp]

We had similar scare stories when Spain joined the EU. Are we over-run with Spanish immigrants? No. In fact, I'm willing to bet there's a net movement in the opposite direction now.

Immigration is a big issue in Britain at the moment, and our own press is always on the look-out for scare stories about how we are going to flooded by immigrants from one country or another. I am highly sceptical that it will happen.

On another note, there has been a resident Polish populatin in Britain for many years now, many coming here as refugees during and after WWII. There is (or was) a Polish Club in my home town of Lincoln, and I believe Polish airmen flew from airfields in the county during WWII.

[wshaw]

Yep. And there were only about 60,000 Polish-born people residing in the UK in 2001 according to census figures. If there were now an additional 300,000 I think we would have noticed it somehow.

[rick green]

Oh, that clears it up then. Scare stories--should have known.

[wshaw]

Besides, they were all supposedly coming here as builders, weren't they? A sort of reverse Boys From The Blackstuff?

Well, have you tried finding a builder recently? Just as much of a nightmare as before.

[m.]

You know, this is quite surreal. In most countries it's tabloids saying all kind of things about other nations, but this information I have from the main Polish daily, really. If you say it’s not happening, at least on the large scale, then what can I say, I’m really glad.

Why would the Polish press encourage people to flee the country? And why to Engalnd in particular?
In short, the opportunity of legal work in 'old' EU countries has been for Poland one of the main advantages of joining the EU in May this year. Some of the countries introduced transition period but UK didn't. The unemployment rate in Poland is about 20 % (I’m not fixated on numbers, just this one seems to stay the same for ages…), so finding a job is a problem and newspapers at one point really wrote about 500, 000 jobs available in UK. Yes, I meant five zeroes. I know, this is all absurd and that's why I felt so strange writing my first post... I should quit newspapers, really.

[wshaw]

I don't suppose we'll know for sure until around this time next year when figures come out, but it does seem unlikely.

[amner]

I should quit newspapers, really.

Couldn't agree more. It's been nearly a year since I read a tabloid (and way longer since I bought one of the bloody things). A waste of trees.

[NottyImp]

I rarely read newspapers - my main news "feed" is the last hour of "This Morning" on Radio 4, and occasional forays onto Sky News on telly.

My feeling about the tabloids is that they have so de-based the medium in the last twenty years that they are now entirely worthless. I'm too young to remember the glory days of the campaigning "Daily Mirror", but I understand it used to be a half-decent read.

[amner]

occasional forays onto Sky News on telly.

Just to catch the Littlejohn hour, eh Notty?

[NottyImp]

He's my hero. I just wish he'd joint host the show with Gary Bushell...

[m.]

:lol: Okay I've moved on, it's just that I'm a Pole, I've got to read Polish newspapers, I've got to be depressed. You can be phlegmatic, that's your national obligation.

[youjustmightlikeit]

Why thankyou.

[rick green]

Gesundheit!

[NottyImp]

You can be phlegmatic, that's your national obligation.

Yep, you can get a nasty chest-cold over here in those dark, cold and damp January days.

[m.]

Glad you appreciate my awful attempt at a joke. :) Re this thread in general - I didn't have doubts about your attitude, if I made you think that I did, then I'm sorry. Your reaction showed me that I was a bit silly, and that was cool, really. But there are some serious issues in the whole thing too. I mean in the problem of im/em.

[NottyImp]

No worries. It's a hugely sensitive issue in Britain at the moment, and frankly a very difficult one. Sadly, we (and most of the rest of Western society) don't seem to realise that the problems we cause (and historically have caused) in the world (and manifestly fail to solve) are at the root of population movements and "immigration worries".

Sadly, I see a new insularity growing in Britain that is both anti-Europe and anti-immigration in rather unprinciples ways.

[wshaw]

Independent, 8 July.

The Home Secretary published a snapshot of immigration figures for May and June, showing a total of 24,000 * including 14,400 who were already in this country illegally * had signed a register for work since the accession of 10 EU countries.

Home Office data also said only 8,000 people from the eight former Communist states arrived in the UK and signed on to a workers' register during May and June.

An accompanying piece has a profile of a Polish worker who'd come here in hope of riches. She strawberry picked for a while, discovered how apalling the wages are, and is going home.

[m.]

Thanks, wshaw. I don't normally check Independent, so I wouldn't catch it.