The Nature Thread

[ono no komachi]

Well, we have a Food thread, and a Weather thread! I thought it might be nice to have somewhere to note our encounters with the natural world, especially after bak's waxing lyrical about the birds and the bees (http://palimpsest.org.uk/forum/showpost.php?p=84823&postcount=316)yesterday.

Despite having lived in fair proximity to the Severn Estuary for more years than I care to remember, I'd never been witness to the now-famous clouds of starlings (http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=39252&d=1139434724), that is, until this morning.

As we approached the Severn Bridge, there was a swell of starlings over to the right, then as we got closer it was clear there was a ribbon of flocking birds coming all the way over from the opposite bank of the river (which is about a mile wide at that point). They were billowing up and over the pylons of the bridge, except that at one point, the flock split and large numbers decided to plummet downwards, evidently choosing the under-bridge route to the Welsh side.

I'm sure I've barely conveyed the smallest sense of what it was like, but it was amazing. What a way to start the day.

[John Self]

I think it's impossible to convey the sense of wonder that flocks of starlings instil, either in words, pictures or video. You really have to be there to appreciate the immensity and control of how they look.

In Belfast they congregate over the Albert Bridge, presumably at dawn and dusk, though I've never been there at dawn so only ever see them as the day begins to end. Is it a water thing, hence the Severn attracting them too?

Oddly enough Mrs Self and I commented on them as we were coming home last Saturday and passed beneath them, then when I was at the launch of David Park's The Truth Commissioner on Tuesday night one of the speakers talked about them. Apparently how they navigate is that each starling always have seven others in its line of sight; it moves as they move.

Here (http://zille.blogspot.com/2007/12/belfast-starlings-show.html)are some pics and a video of the Belfast mob. The patterns are at their best after the 2:00 min mark.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2396/2043730591_d9bde3b260.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/whackojacko/2043730591/)

[ono no komachi]

In Belfast they congregate over the Albert Bridge, presumably at dawn and dusk, though I've never been there at dawn so only ever see them as the day begins to end. Is it a water thing, hence the Severn attracting them too?

It may well be. I think in more rural areas they often roost in reed beds.

[BiNS]

They are a spectacular sight. Up to about 30 years ago, Birmingham used to have enormous flocks of Starlings in the early evening, attracted apparently by the city centre's slightly higher night time temperature. It was often reported that there were up to a million birds in these flocks, I don't know if that was an exaggeration but they did fill the sky and block out a lot of light as they wheeled overhead. But, they were considered a nuisance and the council hung lights in the trees which, along with property owners netting or otherwise protecting their window ledges, dispersed the birds and now sadly, a flock of 30 Starlings is a big one in Brum.

[John Self]

Looking into this further, apparently in Belfast they roost under the Albert Bridge at night - bit of a shock for anyone on a boat tour at the time, I'd have thought. The Belfast one is relatively small compared to BiNS' old Brum one, 30-50,000 birds, though how they count them is anyone's guess.

[Paul]

That reminds me of visits to Carlsbad Caverns in New Mexico when I was younger. They have an amphitheater where you can sit in the evenings and watch the bats as they leave for their nocturnal feedings. At first they trickle out a few at a time but soon there is a solid column that blocks out the sky. According to this (http://www.rozylowicz.com/retirement/carlsbad/carlsbad-bats.html) site, the exodus can take up to 2.5 hours and I've read elsewhere that there are estimated to be several hundred thousand bats living there.

[BiNS]

This (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/highlands_and_islands/7238534.stm) caught my eye yesterday. Shame about the English one mentioned in the article, it seems that nothing is sacred, let's hope there really is a curse on anyone killing such a rarity.

[bakunin_the_cat]

Saw a kingfisher from the bus this morning. A flash of brilliant blue down and then gone. Beautiful.

[ono no komachi]

Saw a kingfisher from the bus this morning. A flash of brilliant blue down and then gone. Beautiful.

Oh, fab. I've only seen a kingfisher 'live' once, but it was truly memorable.

[bakunin_the_cat]

I have seen one once before, by the canal. Again only saw it for an instant but that was enough to make me feel great all day.

[ono no komachi]

This (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/highlands_and_islands/7238534.stm) caught my eye yesterday. Shame about the English one mentioned in the article, it seems that nothing is sacred, let's hope there really is a curse on anyone killing such a rarity.

We had one local to us, subject of many 'is it real or a ghost?' stories in the local Review, until this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/gloucestershire/7084361.stm) occurred. :-(

[ono no komachi]

Thrilled to see a jay

http://www.rspb.org.uk/Images/jay300_tcm9-139317.jpg
(Pic courtesy of the RSPB (http://www.rspb.org.uk/wildlife/birdguide/name/j/jay/index.asp))

in our garden this weekend. There are benefits to being surrounded by trees!

[Lucoid]

Very sad to see two large squashed frogs in the work car park yesterday. They looked very unusual, not like that normal frog you find in English ponds. I'm wondering if they escaped from somewhere.

On the up-side, I saw a gorgeous barn owl on my drive in this morning, one of two or three that I regularly see following the dykes.

[BiNS]

Sure they weren't toads Lucoid? They're on the move at this time of year and countless numbers of them are killed crossing roads.

[Beth]

Well, I'm a numpty then. I didn't know that buying fruit out of season is poisoning birds (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/30/opinion/30stutchbury.html?_r=1&th&emc=th&oref=slogin). I buy organic coffee beans and will start with organic bananas, but what is a person to do for fruit in the midst of winter? I buy frozen fruit in 3lb bags during the winter, but I'm just certain that the origins are Latin American. Is this a problem in the UK and Europe?

[John Self]

There was something loosely related to this in the paper last week. Apples and pears are your standard winter fruits here: harvested in September and October, and then kept in cold storage to keep a steady supply on the supermarket shelves for the next ten months. Fine: no need to air freight stuff in from Chile or New Zealand. The difficulty from an environmental point of view is that from June/July onwards, the amount of energy used to keep the apples in cold storage has begun to pass the amount of energy (and CO2 emissions) it would use to air freight them from halfway across the world. So sometimes it may be better to buy air freighted than British. Of course really one should do without apples and pears in summer and eat the many wonderful fruits that are in season then instead.

[Oryx]

So sometimes it may be better to buy air freighted than British. Of course really one should do without apples and pears in summer and eat the many wonderful fruits that are in season then instead.


Which would be.... ?

[amarie]

Strawberries, raspberries, redcurrants, gooseberries, plums etc - and this is just going by what I grow. I'm sure there's many more out there!

[John Self]

Yep, all those!

[Lucoid]

Sure they weren't toads Lucoid? They're on the move at this time of year and countless numbers of them are killed crossing roads.

I'm sure they weren't toads - smooth skinned and more froggy in shape.

[m.]

Magpies are building a nest just 3-4 metres from my window. I should really buy new batteries and film and take some pictures before the leaves block the view... There are at least two other magpies' nests in the close vicinity. It's probably not very good news for other bird species in the area.

edit: From Wikipedia: In the British Isles, Magpies are associated with bad luck, and in Scotland, a Magpie near the window of the house foretells death. Thank God I don't live in Scotland, but anyway, how exciting. :mrgreen:

[Colyngbourne]

Only a single magpie is bad luck, m., as in the old rhyme:

One for sorrow
Two for joy
Three for a girl
Four for a boy
Five for silver
Six for gold
Seven for a secret never to be told
Eight for Heaven
Nine for Hell
Ten for the Devil himself

[amner]

You're expected to salute single magpies, to ward off the bad luck. I do. I'm stopping though, as it's clearly not working.

[Colyngbourne]

You're expected to salute single magpies, to ward off the bad luck. I do. I'm stopping though, as it's clearly not working.

With more traditional words - "Hello Mr Magpie, how are you today, where's your wife, your child and your family?"

[John Self]

Only a single magpie is bad luck, m., as in the old rhyme:

One for sorrow
Two for joy
Three for a girl
Four for a boy
Five for silver
Six for gold
Seven for a secret never to be told
Eight for Heaven
Nine for Hell
Ten for the Devil himself

Nine and ten aren't exactly good news either.

[Daveybot]

Only a single magpie is bad luck, m., as in the old rhyme:

One for sorrow
Two for joy
Three for a girl
Four for a boy
Five for silver
Six for gold
Seven for a secret never to be told
Eight for Heaven
Nine for Hell
Ten for the Devil himself

The Guggenheim Grotto (http://www.guggenheimgrotto.com/index.html) do a rather nice song which uses a varient of this rhyme as a chorus. Called One For Sorrow, you can hear it here (http://www.guggenheimgrotto.com/cgi-bin/download.aspx?fn=sorrow.mp3).

...and then get the rest of the Lifetime in Heat EP for free download here (http://www.guggenheimgrotto.com/tgg-download.html), and then go buy their album. It's lovely.

[BeccaK]

Only a single magpie is bad luck, m., as in the old rhyme:

One for sorrow
Two for joy
Three for a girl
Four for a boy
Five for silver
Six for gold
Seven for a secret never to be told
Eight for Heaven
Nine for Hell
Ten for the Devil himself

I have the rather softer

Eight for a wish
Nine for a kiss
Ten for an evening ending in bliss

Since it came from my mother I'm quite surprised at that last line. Anyway, they need the high numbers because I counted twelve in a tree when I visited them the other week. That's not great news, I suppose.

I'm a little disappointed that there aren't meant to be any magpies in Fife, where we're moving. I quite like counting threes and fours and predicting the sex of unborn offspring.

[Colyngbourne]

Nine and ten aren't exactly good news either.


True! It surprised me when I looked it up, as I was remembering the altered lyrics for the TV show

Eight to wish
Nine to kiss
Ten is a bird you must not miss

(which being resolutely BBC-Middle-class, I never watched because it was ITV).

[Quink]

Fife !?! As in 'The Kingdom of Fife' ? From Oxford ? Do you have any idea just how rude the awakening will be ?

[amner]

"Hello Mr Magpie, how are you today, where's your wife, your child and your family?"

Mine is very similar: "Hello Mr Magpie, how are you and all your family?"

My brother says that in Nottingham he's heard folk say "Good morning, my Lord" to single magpies.

[Noumenon]

A friend of mine from the North East uses "God Bless You, Old Man", and I confess I've started using it myself. But I really like magpies, so I don't care if they try to aim bad luck at me.

[jim]

My wife's is the rather less formal "Hello Mr Magpie where's your mate?"

[Noumenon]

That's a good one!

[BeccaK]

Fife !?! As in 'The Kingdom of Fife' ? From Oxford ? Do you have any idea just how rude the awakening will be ?

:shock:

My last move was from the Kingdom of Fife to Oxford, in a roundabout way. Have I forgotten something about it? It seemed very good at the time...

[Quink]

That's different, of course. I thought you were referring to a one way move rather than a return ! And your own patch is your own patch, as they say.

[sara]

My dad taught me to say 'Good morning captain', or 'Good afternoon captain', accordingly, and I think it's the only superstition that I observe.

When I was in hospital I had a bed next to the window, and to my horror looked out on hundreds of magpies. I greeted as many of them as possible in a frenzy of hospital fear and superstition. I knew it was stupid, but the 'just in case' thought gripped me.

[Chookie]

I'm a little disappointed that there aren't meant to be any magpies in Fife, where we're moving. I quite like counting threes and fours and predicting the sex of unborn offspring.


Somebody has been telling porkies. Magpies we have* (as well as Oystercatchers).

*This may, of course depend on whereabouts in Fife you'll building your own nest...............


Edit] Saw a couple of Buzzards this morning on the way to w*rk.

[m.]

Thanks guys - I'll have these verses ready for the time when I run out of things to do and there are still a couple of minutes left on my English lessons with children. Nothing like feeding some superstitions to impressionable minds... :lol: We don't have in Poland this kind of beliefs connected to magpies. Just that they steal shiny things, that's all, I think.

[Digger]

Mine's always been more informal too (don't know where I got it from) greeting them with "Hello mr Magpie, how's your missus". Of course I don't know what a Mrs Magpie looks like, they can't all be male!

[Bricklane]

ono, thanks for making the place for me to let off ! :evil: http://image2.sina.com.cn/IT/ul/2005/0407/U68P2DT20050407132226.jpg

[John Self]

Bricklane, can you change the second image into a link please, so people click to get to it and aren't confronted with it unexpectedly? Thanks.

[amner]

I have removed it. It's still breakfast-time here in the UK.

If you want to present people with stuff like that (and, arguably, it might be better placed in Politics & Society) a link is probably the best-advised option, Bricklane.

[Bricklane]

It's still breakfast-time here in the UK.

hehe, really sorry, sir. oh, gentlemen. :-D

If you want to present people with stuff like that (and, arguably, it might be better placed in Politics & Society) a link is probably the best-advised option, Bricklane.

Agreed, I should have thought that.

[ono no komachi]

The recent warmer weather has brought out the bats. They put on an aerobatic show at our place around about 9:20 each evening, wheeling and about-turning like miniature fighter jets. They're really fun to watch.

[kirsty]

Oh wow Ono, that must look amazing. I'm very fond of bats. They're really rather cute.

[ono no komachi]

They are indeed, and lovely to watch because they are so distinct from birds in the way they fly. I never seem to see several together though, and can't work out if that's just because they use their sonar to avoid being in the same airspace as another bat or if there's just one changing direction like a mad thing.

[BiNS]

My Dad and I have been keeping a record for the past 42 years of the first Swifts to return to the area to nest. It's a pretty precise event , the span up until this year had been 8 days, the earliest sighting being on the 27th April (last year) and the latest on 5th May (1976). Taking out the previous extremes, they've arrived every other year between the 2nd and the 4th May.

Well, the first Swifts showed up today, 6 days later than the previous record. If anyone else is old enough to remember, 1976 was the long, hot summer that everyone talked about for years and years so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Swifts know something we don't and we're in for a scorchio summer.

http://www.rspb.org.uk/Images/swift_300_tcm9-142505.jpg

[Digger]

Ooo, my dad does that too! They nest in the barn behind their house, have done for years. When the barn was recently converted to a house he campaigned vigorously and got the builders to leave a series of nest holes for the swifts - they still come back. :-)

They've been screaching through the skies like glorious dive-bombers through all these hot evenings. It's wonderful to see them.

Last time I was home we also noted what seems to be a nesting pair of Kites near the village, now they're seriously big impressive birds! Hurrah.

[BeccaK]

Ooh, there's a sparrowhawk perching on our fence at the moment!

[Stradlater]

Well, the first Swifts showed up today, 6 days later than the previous record. If anyone else is old enough to remember, 1976 was the long, hot summer that everyone talked about for years and years so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Swifts know something we don't and we're in for a scorchio summer.

http://www.rspb.org.uk/Images/swift_300_tcm9-142505.jpg

Famous last words! Ah well . . . it might still happen. Heatwave in September?

[Daveybot]

Famous last words! Ah well . . . it might still happen. Heatwave in September?

I'm hoping so! But just in case I'm going to Italy for a week, too.

[Stradlater]

Grr. Jealous . . .

[ono no komachi]

The woodpeckers have had babies! I saw Daddy Woodpecker (of the Greater Spotted (http://www.birdsofbritain.co.uk/bird-guide/g-s-woodpecker.asp)variety) feeding Junior atop one of our hedges yesterday evening. (Although I subsequently wasted quite some time staring at the same location in case it happened again, there was no repeat performance, sadly.)

[amner]

You're lucky, ono, woodpeckers are a treat, especially the Greater Spotted. Did you see the footage of the one on Springwatch trying to drill a hole on a metal pole?

It's been nature-tastic here in fair East Anglia. The lil'uns have suddenly discovered the joys of wandering about and taking in the bounty of flora and fauna. So much so that they're now owners of binoculars for the first time. I was also pleased to see that these books are still being published:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/513ZURdaqpL._SL500_AA300_.jpghttp://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/515Ss9Q8JoL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

So we''ve been scooting about spotting all manner of stuff. Seeing the breeding pairs of Avocets at Welney is the highlight so far.

[ono no komachi]

Ooh avocets! That must be fab. It's great that the nippers are interested, I think once you get the bug (oh dear, no pun intended) for nature-spotting you never really lose it.

[amner]

They're beautiful birds, yes. They have hobbys and marsh harriers there at the moment, so their website says, but scanning for those might test the patience of two small children, so I may go up on my own for them (it's only 10 minutes up the road).

[Digger]

I remember at primary school they used to have a deal with the local museum who would send in stuffed animals every now and again for the kids to learn about and draw. The beautiful avocet has remained with me ever since and I'm still sad that I've never seen one in the wild.

Nature in all her wonders is a great thing - I'm looking forward to being able to encourage my own when he's old enough to do such things... I think I have a while.

[Colyngbourne]

My offline book group fulfilled one of the member's New Year's Resolutions the other Sunday and took a walk up in the wilds of the local dale to find these - practically the rarest flower in the UK - Spring Gentians - only found in one location at the top of this dale and on one mountain in Ireland. They were the most stunning blue I have seen anywhere, set in my favourite kind of landscape.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v160/HerbertHouston/May2010186.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v160/HerbertHouston/May2010197.jpg

[ono no komachi]

Stunning is exactly the word, Col - for the flower and the landscape. Just lovely.

[amner]

The beautiful avocet has remained with me ever since and I'm still sad that I've never seen one in the wild.

well, get yourself up here this weekend and we'll take you along...the girls would love to show you:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2250/2446792132_24722eedd5.jpg

[Colyngbourne]

On what is seeming like a daily (:-|) 12 min car-run ferrying my son to his work, we are seeing not only the usual crop of bunnies, pheasants, grouse, the occasional barn owl and deer, but a few hares too, hopping down the middle of the lane with not a care in the world. Weird looking beasties but quite cool.

[amner]

The bird-spotting trips with the girlies are becoming quite exciting events now that Summer is fully under way.

In the last couple of weeks our rarer sightings have included a rather pompous and unflustered Green Woodpecker, who posed much like this chap:

http://www.english-country-garden.com/a/i/birds/green-woodpecker-7.jpg

some distant but still startlingly odd Spoonbills:

http://www.nigelspencer.co.uk/wildlife-pictures/bird-pics/eggrets-and-spoonbills/spoonbill-3470-head-small.jpg

and the almost-famous (round 'ere) Girton Black Squirrels:

http://malcolmguite.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/blacksquirrel2.jpg

I was told there was a Red Kite circling Ely cathedral the other day, but wasn't on hand to see it, unfortunately. Oh, and it has also - praise be! - started me drawing again...

[BiNS]

For great views of Red Kites, the M40 anywhere between Banbury and the M25 is excellent. The most I've seen on one trip is 35, usually at least a dozen. The area around Princes Risborough is particularly good.

[Colyngbourne]

After hares and weasels and owls on the regular "bring the son home from work" drive, yesterday we saw a bouncing stoat jumping about in the verge. It looked like a little lemur - brilliant!

[ono no komachi]

Oh they're just brilliant when they leap about, that must have been a great spot, Col.

For once I saw a live badger the other day, galloping across the road at around 9 pm. Lovely. And earlier in the summer had my first spot of a hummingbird hawkmoth hovering over our lavender. (Image from Wikipedia).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/19/IC_Macroglossum_stellatarum1_NR.jpg/250px-IC_Macroglossum_stellatarum1_NR.jpg

[amner]

Stoats are ace, but so 'other' it takes you a moment to compute what you're looking at. Similarly, badgers. I saw one at dusk a couple of years ago, like you ono, gallumphing across a road, and for a moment just stood there thinking, "what the hell is that?"

[Colyngbourne]

Stoats are ace, but so 'other' it takes you a moment to compute what you're looking at. Similarly, badgers. I saw one at dusk a couple of years ago, like you ono, gallumphing across a road, and for a moment just stood there thinking, "what the hell is that?"

That's what I thought! I thought it was a magpie hopping about and began to say "Hello, Mr Magpie, how are you today!" as you should! and then a second later, realised it was fluffy and cute, not black and birdy!

[gil]

Yesterday morning, on my walk, I saw a badger, a fox and a deer. Sounds like the start of a joke, doesn't it.

[Erm...Derek]

At present I have a job driving 4 tonne Bedford trucks around a Safari Park. On a daily basis I see Black Rhino, Giraffe, Zebra, etc as well as interesting British wildlife such as green woodpeckers. I have a great pic of a giraffe sticking his head into my cab and licking Anna Funder's Samuel Johnson Prize winning Stasiland but I can't work out how to post it!

Is it possible to upload pics directly onto these boards or does it have to be on the web.

(Please note - I will not understand if you try to use tech lingo on me.)

[ono no komachi]

I think, Erm...Derek, that you have to have them hosted somewhere like Flickr or Photobucket so that you can paste a URL into the dialogue box that comes up when you click on the Insert Image icon at the top of the Reply box.

[Paul]

While driving up into the mountains last week, my family and I had an encounter with a big horn sheep on the side of the road that was far too close for comfort.

She looked kind of like this, but blurry.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/101/259455066_47345441ce.jpg